Author Topic: Rust protection  (Read 4581 times)

Jordan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Rust protection
« on: January 27, 2019, 09:40:07 AM »
I fired up my Lister at last, connected to a 200 litre drum of water in thermo-syphon configuration.
I'd like to add some anti-rust product to the cooling water.
Are there any suggestions for a good way to go about it?
It's a lot of coolant, so cost is a consideration.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 10:48:37 PM by Jordan »

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2019, 03:47:38 PM »
I use coolant, about a 25 gallon system, 50%

I don't think cutting oil mixes get circulated enough to stay mixed

Hugh Conway

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2019, 06:25:28 PM »
Previously I used a tall 30 gal (about 115 liter) tank for thermosyphon with 50/50 water  automotive antifreeze mix.
My normal run time was 2 to 3 hours and the tank never got all that hot. for shorter runs, a smaller tank could be used. I think those original large Lister cooling tanks were intended for long periods of operation where temp would eventually build up.
I am now using an old cast iron radiator from a house heating system along with a 1 gallon expansion tank. Total coolant volume is about 5 gallons. Still a thermosyphon system with the 50/50 mix. Works fine.
A problem with a large tank with anti-freeze is the initial cost of the anti-freeze, then eventual disposal. A much smaller tank ( for short run times) or radiator set-up reduces both of those problems.
A good cast iron rad can be difficult to find (went through a couple of cracked ones) but do look period appropriate.
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

Jordan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 02:07:55 AM »
Thank you for the suggestions.
The house heating radiator is interesting, but I already have the 44 gallon drum set up.
I'm thinking I can throttle the water flow with the tap at the lower fitting, to limit the cooling effect, if necessary.
Hopefully I can find some coolant/concentrate at a good price.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 07:15:44 AM »
Hi Jordan, a lot of people start off with a 44, trouble is they don`t last long. I think their  life can probably be extended by bolting a sacrificial anode inside it. A better solution would be to look out for an old hot water cylinder, some of these are steel with stove enameled (glass) lining, others are made of copper. If you are really lucky you might find a stainless steel unit. I have also seen a lot of people use large propane/LPG bottles, most of these are galvanized and should give years of service.

Bob

Jordan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 07:39:48 AM »
Hi Bob,
I am concerned about rust at the tank as well as the engine, which is why I thought rust protector would be a good idea.
I caught myself out with the volume though. I could buy several 44 gal. drums for the cost of a proper dose of chemicals for one.
I do have a big galvanised LPG tank to try, thanks for the tip.
Next problem: The one inch BSP skin fittings can cope with the curvature of the big drum, not so sure about the smaller diameter tank.
More rubber gasket material might help there.
In any case, I'll use the existing tank for a while.

Jordan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2019, 06:58:35 AM »
I was thinking along similar lines to Glort's uncle: How to make oil mix with water? Add detergent.
It might be a good cheap solution but I thought could also end up being a "little knowledge is a dangerous thing" type situation.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2019, 07:54:54 AM »
I posted a while back about the possibility of using the heat generated by a Lister engine to dry and filter waste vegetable oil. My crazy idea was to let it settle and then use it as the coolant in a thermo-syphon setup. This would heat it, while a small oil pump would also feed it through a 5 micron filter, before dumping it back into the tank through a sprinkler system 200 mm above cooling tank, this would allow the oil to dry out as per Glort`s instructions on the use of WVO. I am sure that cooking oil is very good at transferring heat, it cooks my steaks & chips very well and also cools the auto transmission on our car. I suspect that it would completely eradicate any corrosion issues and also increase the running temperatures a fraction, which would be a good thing for short runs

Who says a Lister engine can`t multitask?

Bob

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 12:00:03 PM »
Oil cooled engines certainly have a long history of successful use.  The Rumely Oil Pull Tractors of 1910-1930 come to mind first, since they used the exhaust to induce a fresh air draft through the oil radiator, and I use induced draft cooling for my Listeroid. 

The heat transfer of oil is not as good as water, so larger surfaces and a larger radiator would be needed.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 12:36:57 PM »
Hi Glort, I`m with you all the way on a vane pump. I very much doubt that any modern oil would have a problem with an engine running at 150 centigrade, some parts of modern air cooled petrol engines regularly get to 300 centigrade without a problem running standard SAE 30.

When are you coming to visit? Got to get a concrete slab poured before you do so you can help me get her running and photograph the evidence, be that a success or a total failure.

Bob

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2019, 04:51:24 PM »
On the wet cylinder liners, what temps are the O rings good for ?    Wouldn't want a ring to start letting the crankcase flood

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 12:06:52 AM »
Good question Mike. Here is a PDF showing the properties of various rubbers. Highest temperature resistance is around 450 F or 232 C.

Bob

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 12:19:36 AM »
No problem with even Buna-N rubber o-rings for a cylinder liner.  If it gets much over 100C, obviously, the engine has run dry of coolant and all sorts of destruction will ensue. No worries about leaking coolant in that case, it's all gone.


ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 08:21:05 AM »
What about our old friend PTFE which is good for 330 C?

Bob

Jordan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Rust protection
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2019, 09:22:13 AM »
Viton O-rings are good for high temps.