Author Topic: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?  (Read 23167 times)

justsomeguy

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2006, 06:40:53 AM »
...Sound like a winning power plan(t)?...

 ...but overall, it’s probably one of the easiest projects I’ve ever tried to take on.


 <brutal>
Oh yeah, everything is easy sitting at the keyboard.  It's the doing that ain't so easy.

In your spreadsheet I saw no allowance for the questioable, and most likely piss-poor reliability of  a Listeroid.  Come on, now.  A freakin’ data center relying on an Indian Listeroid?   I’m thinking you might want to leave that little tidbit out of the marketing plan for the facility.

You’re talking through your hat, dude.  THIS is one project that aint’t gonna happen.

</brutal>

Sounds interesting, keep us posted…







I will address your brutal answers one at a time, with brutal honesty.

First off, I don't take kindly to people telling me I can't do things.  When I was 19, I was told I couldn't start an ISP.   I was academically dismissed from college... I wasn't smart or devoted enough.  Besides, I was too young to go in to business.  But I was in business since I was 14 selling popcorn at local fairs, events, etc.  I knew that there was no such thing as being too young for business.  College didn't catch my interest, it was hard to focus on engineering when the internet was evolving around me.  I wanted to be a part of that instead.  Most people that tell me that I can't do so because they're afraid that they can't do so themselves.  When I was 21, I was told I could never ever raise the capital to expand the ISP.  People that tell me I can't try to make themselves feel better about their inability's, or lack of self worth by trying to convince me to think the same way.  It doesn't work. I watched ISPs around me fail and go bankrupt.  When I was 24, I was told that dial up was dead, and that it was dumb to expand my ISP to anywhere else.  But I didn't listen.  When people tell me I can't, it just drives me harder. When I was 25, I was told that I couldn't possibly afford to build out a data center, not on my own, not without merging with some other company, or bring in an investor that would end up owning most of the whole deal.  I didn't listen. Stubborn me!  When I was 26, I was told I couldn't  have it lit with fiber from two diverse directions.  Fiber is too expensive.  When I was 27, I was told that I couldn't keep the ISP going without DSL from the local telcos. Now I have a data center.  It has customers.  At that point, people that knew me have pretty much stopped telling me what I can't do.  I was told that having 3X generation would be too expensive.  3X redundant air conditioners?  Nope, that would never fly.  The funny things is that I managed to do both.  More than 10 miles of fiber was installed and lit.  I've got an ISP that has five nines of reliability.  I've learned a thing or two about reliability over the years.  I've got nearly a thousand square miles covered with fixed wireless broadband.  DSL is overrated.  I'm going to turn 30 soon, and I deserve a birthday present.  A listeroid will do just fine, thank you!  I think I've earned it!

In my spare time over the years, I've supercharged a car that shouldn't have been supercharged, dabbled in the programming of it's PCM,  participated in some open source projects, played around with gas turbines, built pneumatic spud cannons that propel spuds beyond the speed of sound, installed an off grid system in a remote cabin,  written some software, and probably some other stuff that I'm forgetting.  I still like to practice pistol craft, because shooting stuff is fun, participate in hobby racing,  you know, because driving fast on a road course is fun, and just do the normal day to day things that everyone does like have a family, raise my boys, climb towers, and run a business.

After all of that, yes, grid tying a listeroid is going to be a cakewalk.

About the reliability: apparently you weren't paying attention, or didn't actually read my post. Probably both.  Maybe you were just too eager to try and bring me down.  But that didn't work. Go read it again and pay attention this time.  What part of that plan depended on the listeroid to do anything?  It's an extra source of heat, and an extra source of grid tied power.  Nothing more. TIED TO THE GRID!  Nothing will depend on it, ever, and nothing will be made less reliable because of its existence or operation. It's going to sit in a detached concrete building to contain it! I'll say it again: the power house will have room for another engine that I can set in there along side the lister.  I know I didn't forget to mention that.  After I go to all the work to build the powerhouse and infrastructure, I would like the ability to get a small, modern 3 cylinder diesel, or another power source of choice if the roid isn't up to the task of reliability.  And it probably won't be, but that's fine. Either way, I would like to learn exactly what that reliability level is.  If I have to do some mods, that's fine, and that'll be part of the fun.  It'll be part of the hobby!!

When I said that it would take a year, I meant that it would take a year in my "spare" time, if I was really ambitious about it.  Heck, maybe it'll take two or three, but that's not the point.  The point is that I could do this project in less than a month if I devoted myself to it.  I know I can do it, that's not in question.  The biggest question is how many years worth of spare time will it take?

justsomeguy

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2006, 07:00:13 AM »

It might take me a year of work to get it in operation, but overall, it’s probably one of the easiest projects I’ve ever tried to take on.


First job on day one, have that cut into a steel plate with plasma, and set it into the ground before the listeroid plinth.

vbg.

Good idea!  But it'll take a lot of steel.  Can you think of a way to paraphrase that down a little?  Get it short, and I'll do it.  That'll be the easiest part of the project!  How about "This plate is the easiest part of the project."?     ;)

dkwflight

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2006, 03:32:05 PM »
Hi I suppose filling the air space in the storage tank might be an option. A slight pressure, maybe 1psi? They do some thing like this for paint in part used cans. I saw a kit advertised some where.
Most fuel tanks have an out let on the bottom to drain the sludge etc. When I used to service home oil burners we installed the pick up up off the bottom because you never knew what the delivery truck would bring with the oil. and we still had problems when the crap was too deep. I suppose thats why ships usually run off a day tank so you can run filtered and processed oil to the engine. The old lister manuals suggested a tank big enough to alow sludge and water to settle.
Thanks
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

GuyFawkes

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2006, 05:16:01 PM »
Diesel has bugs that live in it, only known way to kill them and keep the diesel fresh is circulate through a UV purifier, you still need to cycle the bunkers through an alfa-lavel from time to time.
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Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

aqmxv

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2006, 09:01:35 PM »
Hi I suppose filling the air space in the storage tank might be an option. A slight pressure, maybe 1psi? They do some thing like this for paint in part used cans. I saw a kit advertised some where.
Most fuel tanks have an out let on the bottom to drain the sludge etc. When I used to service home oil burners we installed the pick up up off the bottom because you never knew what the delivery truck would bring with the oil. and we still had problems when the crap was too deep. I suppose thats why ships usually run off a day tank so you can run filtered and processed oil to the engine. The old lister manuals suggested a tank big enough to alow sludge and water to settle.
Thanks
Dennis

Here's an idea - inert gas over the fuel.  Diesel exhaust wouldn't work unless then engine was near max power, because there'd still be a lot of oxygen (and water) left in the exhaust otherwise.  A big dewar of liquid nitrogen is pretty cheap, and when used as a gas source, can last quite a long time for something like filling the air space over the fuel in a tank.  If there are no oxidants, nothing will oxidize.  You'd want to fill the tank as completely full as possible, then hook the vent up to the dewar and pump it back down to the normal storage level to replace the air with N2 in the headspace.

Also, you need tank sump drains like airplane fuel tanks use.  Walk around to the tanks once a month and purge the water from the system into a bucket.  This would probably be a lot better for your hardware than a bottom-of-tank fuel pickup for the generators.

6/1 Metro IDI for home trigen

GuyFawkes

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2006, 09:24:54 PM »
The bugs that live in diesel are anaerobic.

I've seen them (over time) eat pits 1 and 2 cm deep in stainless steels, iron they don't touch.

The only way you can eradicate them is UV purification.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.