Author Topic: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?  (Read 23159 times)

BruceM

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2006, 09:14:32 PM »
My 6/1 is the primary power for my off grid homestead under construction.  Pumps water, runs washer, occasional power tool or heat lamps in the shop, runs air compressor for air powered shop, charges batteries.  6/1 because less is more for a disabled bachelor and my all air shop lets me get away with it by having a big (500 gallon) air tank and some occasional patience.

The Lister(oid) because of slow speed; even 1800 rpm gensets bother my epilepsy badly (sound) and the Lister is very pleasant. 
Bruce M



hotater

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2006, 09:50:04 PM »
I needed an inexpensive to run alternative to 30Kw 24/7 and the Listeroid caught my eye.  To use something to generate electricity off-grid and dependant on what *I* could fix with what I had, the Lister seemed a good teaching platform. IT HAS BEEN.  And I mean that in a very positive way.

Now that I know what's needed in the 'cloning', care and feeding of a full time power plant, I'm going to phase II of the Magic Hot Springs power grid with a properly mounted and prepared engine for the long haul.  I'm predicting a Phase I retirement at about 7500 hours. It'll be interesting to see the wear patterns.

I've been thinking about all the changes in the original Lister CS to it's final form.....Indian 'maybe' to 'utter reliability' is still not THAT big a step to take for something that's not built 'right' anymore.  So what if the crank needs ground and the rod needs bushed to make it square....let's concentrate on how  to make the castings worthy of the work we put in the rest of it.  This is a good place for aftermarket goos that seal, straighten, lock and adjust out of whack basic machine set-ups.  LocTite has anything that's needed.  I'm convinced the 'big, heavy, stout, stable, and low stress' desiel is the way to go.....and the imports are WELL worth what's paid for them.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Timbo

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2006, 09:56:26 PM »
Why did I buy a listeroid?

The reason I told my wife?  It will make a reliable and quiet back-up power supply for our place at the coast that loses power on a regular basis.

The real reason?  It's cool and different with the flywheels and hand crank.  Plus I enjoy working on diesel engines (a CPA by trade, but really a frustrated engineer) - Rebuilt a 1959 Mercedes 190D with my grandfather the summer I was 16, and 20 some years later, I just got the oil out from under my fingernails from changing a timing belt on my VW diesel two weeks ago.  I could pay someone to ship me a diesel generator on a skid ready to go, but where is the fun in that?

This will be an opportunity to have another "toy" to play with that can be put to good use.

Timbo

Andre Blanchard

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2006, 10:18:09 PM »
While I can come up with any number of reasons the only one that really counts is.

I wanted one.


Ended up with two .
.....  so far. :)
Got an Allis Chalmers WC looks like this one but missing the motor, sheet metal, gas tank, and radiator.
http://www.tractorshed.com/contents/tpic109.htm
Been thinking a 20/2 sitting on there crossmotor style would be neat.

And when you think some people spend as much on cigarettes and booze, it does not really take any justification, whose habit is going to kill them first.
______________
Andre' B

mobile_bob

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2006, 10:43:24 PM »
i see a pattern developing here, with one thing strangely absent
anyone know what it is?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

SCOTT

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2006, 12:26:53 AM »
2 reasons:
1.   I bought my Listeroid  to net meter in CT (#1 to work it hard).  My state allows me to sell excess electricity back to the grid, I can interconnect with up to 100kw system.  The fuel must be renewable which vegi oil is and is specifically mentioned in the statute.  Better yet the state offers grants up to $500 per kw for such a system.  Originally my idea was to “zero” out my bill but after running the numbers there is the potential to receive a check from the utility every month.  The only limiting factor is the quantity of fuel I can obtain and process.

2.   I like a challenge.  (#5 other)  The challenge I envisioned was taming such a beast without having any formal mechanic type training.  I am in finance; the most complicated engine related task I have done is change my own oil on my car.  I was ready to buy a listeroid from Powersolutions on the west coast, but then this whole EPA issue reared its ugly head. This was an unexpected challenge.  So I started to read everything I could about the regs pertaining to stationary diesel engines…long story short I brought a load and I picked up/ delivered the engines last Friday 7.27.06   Any time someone tells me that something I want do do “can’t be done” I see that as a challenge and the wheels start turning.  A great example of this is the thought that you need to pour a ton of concrete as a base for a listeroid vs. bolt a frame to a slab.  I will post more about mounting in that thread


Scott
net metering with a 6/1 in Connecticut
12/1
6/1

westexx

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2006, 01:09:56 AM »
 My story starts out about two hours after Rita hit land with 14 evacuees in my home besides my family. I lost power for 11 days. I thought I was ready for it with 2 gas burners and 70 gallons of gas. Guess what. I was pulling the flywheel on one in 100 mph winds so we could flush toilets. Not fun. Started looking for anything better and came across this site. Now I consider my self a young man at 37 and pretty successful for my up bringing. One thing my father taught me was that if a man built it I could fix it or build it if I put my head into it.  I had lots of people tell my I was crazy but there was one thing I started to realize, they were all non do it yourselfers. They all hauled every thing somewhere to get it fixed or bought a new one. I read this site,  investigated, learned and built one of the best generators I could ever have. But the best part of the whole thing is I have a 12 year old son that has turned every bolt, welded on, cranked and learned this engine right by my side every step of the way. I am proud of my creation but when your son brings his friends home to see HIS engine it is all worth it.
 I built this engine/generator set for back up power but as you can see it turned into so much more. 
Wesley   Ashwamegh 25/2

DaveW

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2006, 02:41:32 AM »
Okay, mobile_bob, I'll be the first to bite.  What's missing?

Rtqii

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2006, 02:54:58 AM »
If I had to guess... One thing that is missing is (#4) - There are no people here talking about slick paint jobs (tho there are some I am sure)...

Nobody is talking about appearances.

mobile_bob

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2006, 03:08:14 AM »
Dave:

i wanted to wait and see how the mix panned out,, i have to admit i on one and a bit shocked, and on the other hand
shocked that i am shocked! :)

the way things were going on a particular thread, i was beginning to wonder about the mix of thinking in regard to the purchase of a listeroid.

it made me wonder perhaps i am all wet, and too narrow in my focus.

i was beginning to think that perhaps there was a strong contengent of folks that purchased these engines, to reengineer them.
or as a test bed to prove out their capability to reinvent the engine.

once i started to think down those lines it became apparent to me, what motivates those type of individuals. Then it became easier to cope with the wierd (to me)progression of ideas.

so i decided to stop and rethink things a bit. Realizing that everyone has different motives, thoughts and goals, made trying to have a dialog easier for me.

until i got a grasp of this concept, quite frankly the discussion became very tedious and frustrating.

then i thought,,, "oh ok,,, if that is what you look to the listeroid for, is a test bed for engineering idea's, fine! i can accept that"

the next thought came to mind, ... "wait a minute,,,, how many folks are in that camp?" "and who are they?"

i figured it would be far easier to discuss idea's if you i knew the motivation.

so far there seems to be an overwhelming majority of folks that want to use the engines as supplied to do useful work, without
having to reinvent the damn things.

as an example if mr. X, is an engineer, that wants a test engine to work out different idea's he has, develop for instance roller tips etc... then fine... i can understand that, and can have a constructive dialog with the guy.  or.....

if mr. Y, wants an engine to provide power and useful work, and i know that up front, then the dialog goes a different direction,
and i can follow that... that cool...

problem is,,, when you have a mix of X's and Y's and don't know from adam where they are coming from you get a pretty wierd thread going, with those in X's camp going one direction and those in Y's camp going the other, and neither side understanding why, or worse yet looking at each other like the other side is nuts.

i guess the surprise to me after following some of the threads, was the apparent low number of Mr. X's, and a very high number of Mr. Y's that have stepped forward to answer this thread.

so far i havent seen any that got their engines for the purpose of reengineering them.

don't get me wrong,,, i am equally at ease with either line of thinking,,, just wanted to know which direction we were going and what the goals are.

hopefully that makes sense.
bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

mobile_bob

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2006, 03:11:10 AM »
bottom line is i think both X's and Y's can get along far easier if they know which side of the fence the other guy is on.

maybe thats why there were red coats and blue coats in the revolution :), without the colors we would have been shooting our own guys!

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

DaveW

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 04:15:03 AM »
     bob g - makes sense.  I am an engineer(retired), but my Lister has no hint of any digital circuitry on it, and I like it that way.  My needs are mundane, start on demand, run all night without needing constant attention, quiet, and easy fuel storage.  Sounds like a slow speed diesel to me. I found this old Lister ST2 for next to nothing, if it takes several hundred to get it running again then I'm still money ahead and will have the fun of learning something new.  The ST head looks good, but I may have to fix the output to make it cleaner.  And maybe a remote digital monitoring station...wait. What am I saying.  This may lead to more than I thought.  Oh well, maybe I need to rethink which of those items I should have checked off on your list.

Rtqii

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2006, 05:22:16 AM »
LMAO  :D :D

Look at the big picture bob and don't try to box people into divisions.  People defect, cross over to the other side!!!  Are they traitors?   :P

I have been reading here quietly about 12-15 hours a day catching up.  I have a huge project in front of me and I don't want to make simple mistakes out of ignorance.  I chose this engine, despite all its faults, because other people see room for improvement... And the price is right.

For instance:

I used to trick build small, high performance 2-cycle gasoline engines for racing and high-speed pleasure.... Chain saw motor go-carts, then reed valve modified Vespa's with cut cranks and all the bells and whistles inside the stock case. Go zoooom!!!!

My experience at the home school where hard knocks (literally) are the teacher has shown me that in high performance engines there is rarely too much lubricant applied, or applied correctly.  When my machines failed, it was because the lubrication did not match output HP over time, or I used the wrong type of lubricants, or I used the correct type of lubricants the wrong way.

But Listeriod mission critical applications are not about speed and "high" performance.... I am not seeking to boost RPM, horsepower, or output... These applications require long, long, long run times between routine service and the type of failures you _want_ to see are the ones where you were warned weeks beforehand... Growling bearings, rattling linkage, seeping gaskets... Not catastrophic meltdowns and train wrecks (yet due to poor quality in some parts, life happens).

Not long ago as the threads fly, Shipchief identified a critical lubrication issue with his discovery of a dry injector cam in his twin. He stated that under the cover his lobes were bone dry, there was no oil supply, and there was _rust_ present inside a section of the closed cam works.

Don't think for an instant I am not going to look at this critically and carefully (with my best eye) seeking to re-engineer a better solution if I see the same problem. Shipchief made a modification, he drilled holes and plumbed oil to the dry working point. I will likely do the same with my twin as soon as I can. This is a form of re-engineering, correcting a defect or strengthening a weak spot.  Once a suitable modification is made, if it proves effective (and Shipchief nailed the best solution imo)... You have less to worry, and if steps like this are taken routinely, you have less failure.

These engines are inexpensive... You can buy 2-3 (or more) for the price of a real high quality small diesel that specs out in every aspect.  The balancing factor is that the quality engine will still wear, and eventually wear out, and some of them will still break down (less often of course because the parts are better)... And it will cost a pantload more to fix.

Clean and properly lubricated, and despite minor manufacturing flaws, these engines should basically start up and break in OK. (I know there are lemons which should be excluded, these are the result of major, not minor flaws).. They require a pre-break in checkup and adjustment, they may require service after break in. In the meantime they perform a lot of useful work, and afterwards they will perform a lot more useful work.  I may reengineer minor flaws in the production, say shoot oil to a dry cam lobe... But I am not going to redesign engines...

I just make them do whatever it is they are supposed to do, better.

A well designed engine does not need re-designing... A poorly engineered design may need corrective engineering.

Also remember that people get brain storms (or attacks, it is hard to tell them apart sometimes kyradawg :D ) and they toss out ideas that are basically not practical from a design or engineering standpoint... They may carry out their ideas... People will comment... But people who tightrope walk across big canyons and waterfalls for a hobby rarely lead a large crowd of followers.

 8)

P.S. I fell in love with a tugboat engine once at a show... It would make a killer off-grid power supply and I would never need to do more than just idle the durned thing... But I would still need a Listeroid driven air compressor to get it started.  ::)

mobile_bob

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2006, 06:14:50 AM »
"Look at the big picture bob and don't try to box people into divisions"

believe me i have no intention of boxing in anyone, just trying to get a feel what the idividual priorities might be as it relates to a particular thread.

for instance if the question is about a particular part, and when faced with spending a few hours, working out the design, math, geometry or whatever, knowing up
front what the person is looking for is alot of help.

i didnt want to pick on a particular thread, but here goes
i mistook what the overall idea was, i thought the problem was one of geometry
as it went it mutated to one of design or implimentation of another design.

if i would have understood what the thread was after, why would i spend a couple hours plotting geometry for the
original part, when it was an alternate design(with a differing geometry) that was requested.

i am all for all the boxes you can think of,, just label them so i and others know whats in them.
and you will probably find most of us rummaging thru all of them.

make sense?

bob g

otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Rtqii

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Re: why did you buy a listeroid, or why do you want one?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2006, 07:46:12 AM »
Quote
if i would have understood what the thread was after, why would i spend a couple hours plotting geometry for the original part, when it was an alternate design(with a differing geometry) that was requested.

That's easy... Just ask before wasting time if your time would be wasted  ;)

But this is a very good thread, and I am glad you started it regardless of the reason. Not a waste of time  :)