Author Topic: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???  (Read 9719 times)

solarguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
So yeah, gib key surprised me how easily it came out.  Flywheel won't budge and I've broken two pullers.

I've used the magic oil, gentle heat, gentle tapping, etc etc etc.

Ideas...

Thanks in advance,

troy

JohnF13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
    • woodnstuff
Troy;

The problem likely is that there is some gunk lodged in the gap between the wheel and the shaft.  Try locking the other wheel in place then rotating the wheel you want off around the shaft - yoou can devise some sort of lever to help you along.  If you can break the seal it will come off, you may need to sand down the shaft to get it to pull off.
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
this is potentially dangerous, so you need to think it through CAREFULLY first and plan every stage.

#1 clean and polish ALL the exposed shaft

#2 use a pick, like a dentist probe, to clean thoroughly the join between flywheel and shaft

#3 ensure the keyway is spotlessly clean and free from burrs.

#4 cool the shaft with dry ice

#5 CAREFULLY and EVENLY heat the ENTIRE flywheel

#6 use a big puller with bearing splitter to ensure the purchase is on the hub, do not apply too much traction.

repeat steps 4, 5, and 6 as often as required.

this WILL work, but you MUST be patient

in a different application you can achieve step 5 by immersing the part in oil and heating it

------------------------------

many people say removing em is easy, putting em back tight is hard, if so, clean both mating surfaces SCRUPULOUSLY, then use fine powdered chalk, this works REALLY well on tapers.

I don't know about listeroids, but it is quite common for flywheels to be an interference fit, so you will never pull them off cold.

if you have a big puller you can easy rivet the end of the crank if you are over zealous, and bust your flywheels to.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
the heating the flywheel thing, GENTLE heat, and EVEN, get it wrong and you weaken it dramatically and possibly invisibly.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

  • Guest
Everything the Guy said but I'll add soaking in some "Lock Tight gasket chisel" to soften any gooey stuff and help clean the shaft.

Doug

solarguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Thanks folks,

Dear Guy,

I wondered if they were interferance or shrink on...anybody know definitively?


I am building a better puller using copious amount of 1/4 and 1/2 inch steel.  I won't pull TOO hard though.

I willl try the rotation trick.

The shaft is scrupulously  clean, etc.

Even heating is not a trivial achievement.

Will keep you posted.

Finest regards,

troy

akghound

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
I had to pull mine when I replaced the cam shaft a while back. It too was stuck. I placed a 2x4 through the hole in the opposite wheel and wedged it so it could not turn. Then I carefully turned the one I need to remove with a short 2x4. It came loose without a hitch. Be careful not to remove it all the way off the crankshaft, unless you really need to, they are heavy and hard to get back on. My engine had a larger diameter area on the crank where the flywheel rides. Once the flywheel slid past that area it was hard to get back. To do so I simply slid the gib pin back under it (leaving it loose) to "Pick The Flywheel Up" a little bit and slide it back on to the larger area. 
Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid

Halfnuts

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
    • View Profile
I just went through this with mine.  Started the engine with the gib key out and before she cranked up to speed, the flywheel was turning slower than the crankshaft.  Killed the engine immediately.  Then oiled up the crankshaft and slowly pulled the flywheel off by rotating with the other wheel tied down.  You'll find some orientation where the wheel slides on the crankshaft, but it probably won't be with the keyways aligned.  There was JUST ENOUGH clearance to slide my wheel off the shaft.  I'd guess no more than a thousandth.  Couldn't elicit any rattle by grabbing the rims and shaking.  Any surface rust or dings will hang it up on the way out.  Watch your toes!

Halfnuts.

gpkull

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 01:12:11 AM »
 had stuck keys and wheels. keys were a b wheels were not as bad as "1/2 nuts" as far as getting broke free [was not easy] but the trouble was they moved just enough not to get the gibber back in. i used castrol SPF spray can stuff . broke down the gue back and frorth for a long time gaining a little each time. mine are not press fit as i dont believe any others are. there should be a thou or so SLIP you may have a bunch of gue between the wheel and crank. if i had to i would go with the fire it off wirh no key. the wheel will not just break free and go hauling a.  you may have a tight clearance but "they" dont sit on the floor" with a sledge putting these wheels on. penetrating fliud and a budge will probably do.  if u dont mind why are u removing? also not proud but you might or mightnot want to look at GIB KEY REMOVERS u already have yours out but i posted about what could happen when you puttem back in. rots of ruck                                                                             

                                                                                                                      happy listering whenever the time comes

Twinscrew

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 02:35:18 AM »
The "Fire it up without the gib key installed" method probably won't be found in the repair manual. However, the torque of the crankshaft accompanied by the many orders of harmonics will probably loosen even the tightest wheel. Cheap insurance aqainst a runaway flywheel would be a hoseclamp installed on the crankshaft. Two clamps, better still. Might not want to wear flip-flops for this procedure. :o

JohnF13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
    • woodnstuff
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 08:19:26 PM »
Unless the GM 90's are different, no Listeroids have "shrink fit" flywheels.  The problem, as others have mentioned, is that there is some junk between the flywheel and the shaft - its probably gummed up oil and associated dirt.  Clean off as best you can, polish the shaft, use a pick to get at the parts under the wheel, lock the other side in place with a 2 x 4 then lever the one you want off with another 2 x 4.  It might take some time, but it will come.  The big thing you have to be concerned about is any minute metal pieces sticking up (Usually along the outer edges of the keyway) , these will stop the flywheel from coming off.  I have heard of people using the "fire it up" method, I'm told it does work, but I'm a bit of a coward in THAT department!
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

rjcroc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2006, 07:52:12 PM »

I had similiar problems. Get some Jameson. It doesnt help but it doesnt hurt.

Rick
"THE GREATEST DANGER FOR MOST OF US IS NOT THAT OUR AIM IS TOO HIGH AND WE MISS IT, BUT THAT IT IS TOO LOW AND WE REACH IT"  MICHELANGELO
6/1 METRO, 6/1 LISTER SOM, 6/1 LISTER, 1 1/2 HP LISTER D, LISTER PUMP,LISTER PETTER LPWS4

Halfnuts

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
    • View Profile
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2006, 07:53:16 PM »
John, it's no big nevermind.  Had the undersize gib key pop out on my 6/1, bounced off something and got batted by one of the spokes into my rippling rock-hard abs.  Left a nice scar.  Flywheel spun merrily along as if nothing had happened.  Killed the engine (thanking my Maker it didn't hit me in an eye) and the flywheel continued spinning on the crankshaft.  I think if Troy would just place some kind of collar on the crankshaft so the wheel can't come off and cause damage, running the engine shouldn't be a big thing.  However, I wouldn't go away and leave it running that way.  

Maybe a couple of hose clamps around the crank would be enough.  With the power and compression torque pulses twisting in opposite directions, it should pop loose, given some penetrating oil and time.  Maybe some ice in a suitable container with a little Jameson's poured over it might quell any misgivings you have about running the engine like that. 

Halfnuts
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 07:56:42 PM by Halfnuts »

lev-l-lok

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Gib key popped right out ;-) but flywheel won't budge. Suggestions???
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2006, 09:55:21 PM »
List, Croc boy (Rick) forgets, (it's the Jamesons) that he used the 2X4 method to rock the flywheels free after the drilling out of the gib keys. 2X4 to secure one flywheel to crankcase, rotate flywheel to be removed, inertia will be your friend. Caution, clean exposed shaft and debur carefully, lots of Kroil soaking. Works like a charm.
Paul
Paul

1922 Fairbanks 6 hp Z, Chang Fa ZS1115G / Fuking ST-10, Lister? soon!