Author Topic: field marshal with gas connection  (Read 3816 times)

saba

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field marshal with gas connection
« on: October 21, 2018, 11:19:34 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qReu9PuP4yQ

actually i tried it myself works perfect..

38ac

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 12:06:49 PM »
Nice to see somebody starting one that actually knows what they are doing, lube on the crankshaft prevents the handle from sticking. It's much easier to turn it backwards to get the decomp set rather than forward.  Have the fuel turned on before you start cranking.
Watching You Tube videos of people starting CS engines is both appalling and entertaining. Seen people start them and leave the crank handle on the shaft. Seen people struggle to pull them over compression because they didn't know to use the release. Seen the racks stuck open and the engine running stupid fast RPMS. Seen people leave the rack closed and have to play speedy Gonzales to get the decomp off and rack open,,,,

It doesn't take a manual to figure that stuff out, just common sense which that operator obviously has.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel


ajaffa1

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 12:08:47 PM »
Hey Glort, I`m wondering about the advantages of adding a gaseous hydrocarbon to a diesel engine, doubt it would auto combust under pressure like diesel, WVO or WMO. Would it have a faster burn rate that would improve efficiency? Perhaps it would be OK in a hot cylinder that had been started on another fuel.

The video doesn`t appear to show a glow plug to assist combustion so I have to assume that bio gas will ignite at around 20 to 1 compression. Food for thought for anyone trying to compress it for storage, any amount or oxygen contamination could be catastrophic.

Bob


guest23837

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 04:05:36 PM »
I take it this engine is unregulated? Big load and it dies?

BruceM

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
Like CarlB's setup, with a fixed NG flow, when a big load hits, more diesel is burned.  The NG-diesel mix can't go over about 85% NG. 

Propane-diesel is disappointing, about 20% max.


BruceM

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 03:24:44 AM »
You're right, Glort, Propane detonates at much lower pressure.  On my neighbor's 8/1 propane conversion (with long reach spark plug in the former injector hole) we had to add almost 0.6 inches (0.5 inch aluminum plus some 0.032 aluminum) under the cylinder to prevent pre-ignition under load. Push rods had to be extended.

mikenash

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 07:35:47 AM »
30-odd years ago when our government still ran the dairy industry and we had LPG so cheap and plentiful we were burning the stuff off to get rid of it we trial-converted some Isuzu tractor units to run on diesel/LPG.  They were towing semi-trailers full of milk from collection points to processing plants.  By chance I later worked with one of the drivers and he said they had heaps more torque - overtake everything up the hills - but the project was abandoned because, regardless of configuration, sooner or later the engines just cracked pistons . . .

saba

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 10:50:51 PM »
My experiance with NG propane and liquid petrolium gas LPG, I started with LPG that I used on my boat for cooking, it's a mix of propane and butane, the propane boils of first from the bottle and your left with butane wich self egnites in the compresion so your "dieselknock"will be a lot louder. Propane is a dream aswell as natural gas. It has high properties.

I put a lot of googeling time into it before I first tried, I even read articals that in the us they use it in trucks as bifuel to increase power and better fuel economics. Most of the stuff I allready forgot again but I remember it was clear green light.
Only like I said butane, in winter time in Holland they incease the amount of propane in lpg because of the difference of boiling points of the gasses so maybe then it's ok to use it in a diesel.
As I remeber there are even companies in europe holland that can install it in a diesel car for an increase of fuel economy.

I never automated the gas supply so I did not dare to leave it alone, but for sure it worked.I just used it when I was near the engine and whenever I left just close the tap and it would run on wvo the rest of the time. My intention was for a cleaner burning so my exhaust gas cooler would not faul so fast and a lack of supply of wvo was looking for an alternative.

Bernhard

saba

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 01:49:54 AM »
Hey glort I knew you would dive in, the gas thing was just out of interest and the fact when I store my boat in winter I need to take the bottle out for insurance reasons.  So engine + bottle....

If I would use the bottle sometimes I would use a torch on the bottle to get the gas out, it would freeze.  (sounds more dramatic then it is). Not bullshitting propane and butane have verry different boiling points, to lazy to look it up again but butane beeing someting like 10 degr celcius. So if in cold weather your draining the bottle....Thats why in summer you have a load more butane like 30%. You can find it somewhere on internet.
But the last bit of the bottle was not nice to run it really started to knock badly.

With the natural gas the economic reason is not there in my case almost same price, but I used it and it worked only I should increase flow, was like 10 % of the load.



I know one point your very keen on the water injection, if you burn fuel you got a lot of water aswell  hydrocarbons...with gas I believe its even more. I was condensing the exhaust gas so I already got liters of water draining from the heatexchanger and when the boiler reached it's temperature the condensing would happen somewhere further down the line making a mess.
I'll promise that when I start the plant up again I will give it a try with extra water but for the exhaustgas heat exchanger I do not see the advantage (yet). Promise one day I will try.

For the last years I put to much time in my chp plant I need to catch up with some other stuff I still work and just bought some garage that I am busy with.I love this stuff so it will start again.
Bernhard

Matt12

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 02:05:14 AM »
Hey glort I knew you would dive in, the gas thing was just out of interest and the fact when I store my boat in winter I need to take the bottle out for insurance reasons.  So engine + bottle....

If I would use the bottle sometimes I would use a torch on the bottle to get the gas out, it would freeze.  (sounds more dramatic then it is). Not bullshitting propane and butane have verry different boiling points, to lazy to look it up again but butane beeing someting like 10 degr celcius. So if in cold weather your draining the bottle....Thats why in summer you have a load more butane like 30%. You can find it somewhere on internet.
But the last bit of the bottle was not nice to run it really started to knock badly.

With the natural gas the economic reason is not there in my case almost same price, but I used it and it worked only I should increase flow, was like 10 % of the load.



I know one point your very keen on the water injection, if you burn fuel you got a lot of water aswell  hydrocarbons...with gas I believe its even more. I was condensing the exhaust gas so I already got liters of water draining from the heatexchanger and when the boiler reached it's temperature the condensing would happen somewhere further down the line making a mess.
I'll promise that when I start the plant up again I will give it a try with extra water but for the exhaustgas heat exchanger I do not see the advantage (yet). Promise one day I will try.

For the last years I put to much time in my chp plant I need to catch up with some other stuff I still work and just bought some garage that I am busy with.I love this stuff so it will start again.
Bernhard

Hi Saba,
             You are correct about the two liquid gases evaporating at different rates, butane boils at about 0deg c, so it is last to leave the bottle, the two liquids are mixtures, not solutions and have very little 'polar' bonding of the molecules, as evidenced by your observation of the knocking that occurs during the last of the cylinder's contents, if they didn't boil at different rates, refinery distillation columns wouldn't work.
Matt12.

saba

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Re: field marshal with gas connection
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 02:14:10 AM »
Thanks for that I was just correcting my lazyness by posting the wiki of both.
Propane is a popular choice for barbecues and portable stoves because the low boiling point of −42 °C (−44 °F) makes it vaporize as soon as it is released from its pressurized container. Therefore, no carburetor or other vaporizing device is required; a simple metering nozzle suffices

butane
Boiling point   −1 to 1 °C; 30 to 34 °F; 272 to 274 K

Bernhard