Author Topic: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2  (Read 88889 times)

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2018, 10:01:27 PM »
Hi Bob

Nice to hear from you.

1) COV's are not stuck, just only the main plug, the other parts are out souking to be cleaned.

2) and was (is) just to clean it thoroughly, as all parts.

Explain more that "water injection to prevent these carbon deposits from building up"

Cheers
VP

PS: things are going well, but i'll order parts only when all disassembly is done. (Postage truly expensive!)

« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 10:22:40 PM by sirpedrosa »
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

mike90045

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2018, 10:35:47 PM »
....
Explain more that "water injection to prevent these carbon deposits from building up"

take your basic spray bottle , and fill it with water or 50/50 water alcohol, and with the engine
running under a load, and thoroughly warmed up, start spraying a spritz of water into the intake pipe
(not just into the air cleaner, where it will ruin the paper element) but past the element, and right down the intake.
I give a squirt every 3rd or 4th power stroke, and amazingly, it just flashes into steam, cleans the cylinder, and blows the crud out.   Some folks rig up a dripper, some use a metering pump.
 Used to be used in airplanes to control detonation in piston engines, and was found to have a good cleaning effect too.   There's a load of posts here about all the different ways and flow rates people use.

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2018, 10:42:16 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, sorry I haven`t posted much recently. My Wife`s father has had a stroke and was expected to die. I am very pleased to say that he is now recovering well.  :)

If you do a search on the forum you will find a lot of information on water injection. Some clever people have fitted venturie pipes in to their inlet manifolds others use gravity fed systems. The important thing with water injection is that it is only used in a hot running engine and that it is turned off before shutting down. You do not want water standing in your cylinders. You can also manually do this by pouring a small amount of water into the inlets, if you put in too much the engine will start to bog down. It works equally well with petrol engines. The water turns to steam and lifts all the crap out of the engine and blows it out of the exhaust.

Glort is a huge exponent of water injection and has a water pump in his diesel car, running on waste vegetable oil, he also sometimes adds ethanol or methanol which gives him a bit of a power boost. He swears that it improves engine performance and longevity.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #123 on: October 29, 2018, 10:42:41 PM »
Greattings

Cart is finished, lets see if it manage...

Measuring ring clearence:

Cylinder nº 1 (rgt)
ring nº                TDC                              BDC
1 ---------- 1,55mm (0.0610") ---- 1,30mm (0.0511") ---- width 3,85mm (0.1515") ---- thickness [3,10mm (0.1220") outer lip] > {3,05mm inner lip}
2 ---------- 0,95mm (0.0374") ---- 0,85mm (0.0334") ---- width 3,90mm (0.1535") ---- thickness 3,12~mm (0.1228")
3 ---------- 0,95mm (0.0374") ---- 0,90mm (0.0354")
4 ---------- 0,85mm (0.0334") ---- 0,80mm (0.0314")
oil --------- 1,15mm (0.0452") ---- 1,10mm (0.0433")

Bob and 38ac - opinion requested please!

Cheers
VP

« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 01:39:56 PM by sirpedrosa »
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2018, 01:26:32 PM »
Hi Everyone

Finally the first project is finished (only the throttle spring was missing), and rocking and rolling.

Bernard 18A - 1968, with the original color of clay brick.
(the water pump could not be saved, I put a polye)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eA4kiglnbFnQm2-qBeP_xpLKRZGzJNBo/view?usp=sharing

Nice weekend
VP
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 01:36:29 PM by sirpedrosa »
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #125 on: November 07, 2018, 03:10:15 PM »
Several observations form you last few posts.  Measuring piston to cylinder clearance when measured at the bottom of the bore is almost worthless as for discerning the condition. In all but the most worn and abused examples the great bulk of wear occurs at the very top top of the top ring travel in the cylinder and the top ring lands of the piston. Your piston ring end gap figures do indeed provide some good information to go with if  I can assume when you were measuring the top ring end gaps at the top of where they travel and NOT at the top of the cylinder? If you measured at the top of the cylinder the information is worthless.

Assuming you measured the ring end gaps at the correct place in the cylinder my ready math,  which is diameter = circumference divided by 3 you have about .003 wear in that cylinder.   That cylinder  is OK  to use. Top ring side clearance is also important.New spec is around .001" If you have more than .005 you need pistons IMO. Also all those end gaps are excessive, I assume they are used rings? Once more I apologize as I dont read every post on the threads.
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sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #126 on: November 08, 2018, 11:37:57 AM »
Thank you 38ac

Yes, the clearances were measured at the location where each ring stays on the TDC.
The rings are the ones that were in service.
It means that - with these clearances - new rings should be installed. Right?
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #127 on: November 08, 2018, 11:50:53 AM »
If there are no other problems with the pistons you can reuse them. New rings are in order.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #128 on: November 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, be careful when ordering new piston rings. Hard chrome plated cylinder bores require soft piston rings. Some Listeroid engines have cast iron cylinder bores and require hard piston rings, others have steel sleeves and require  intermediate rings. Please make it clear to your supplier that you have hard chrome cylinders.

Bob 

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #129 on: November 24, 2018, 12:59:38 PM »
Hi Everyone

Got the fuel filter adaptar done! Nice piece.

Cheers
VP

PS: Lathe bill takes away a few good bottles of red and green...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 01:06:42 PM by sirpedrosa »
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #130 on: November 24, 2018, 10:48:10 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, very nice work, love to see some polished brass rather than the normal cheap cadmium plated steel crap normally used now.

What is the make and number of that fuel filter so I can do the same ?

Sorry to hear the cost of parts and machining services is reducing your alcohol consumption. Stick with it, it will be worth it in the end.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #131 on: November 24, 2018, 11:33:05 PM »
Hi Bob

Popular name for this filter is kx9 (Mhale) - and is a general porpose fuel filter for a huge number os automotive brands.

I showed it in Reply #67 - In AU you can buy a C4891 FRAM (view equivalent chart https://www.pecasauto24.pt/mann-filter-7280260.html)

About the brass, I had to buy the material for turning. The 3/8 pipe had to buy 1.5m, yes 1.5m, and it was just a spare, otherwise I had to buy 6m (it's all crazy, I was told it's normal to do everything now in stainless steel). Brass is brass... period.

And then I want to keep everything in the imperial standard. It's more expensive... less a bottle of green.

Bob, it is not a consumption of alcohol, it is a way of saying that a bottle ends quickly, but the piece we see will last longer. I only drink at mealtime, or a beer if it is warmer.

But it looks nice!

Cheers
VP

PS: Have you see the petter's air filter nut? nice design?
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #132 on: November 25, 2018, 10:41:31 AM »
Hi Pedrosa, yes I saw the new air filter retaining nut, very nice to see someone still knows how to use a knurling tool in a lathe.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #133 on: November 27, 2018, 07:25:14 PM »
Hi Bob

While the restoration does not advance, another brass tap saves from going to the container for china. And it's already polished and tuned.

BR
VP
By order of firing up:
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx
Lister 12/2 - 12651227, the pearl!
Deutz MAH 914, 1952 - Zündfix in chamber and go (7Mai2023).

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2018, 10:35:55 AM »
I have been performing that same fuel filter conversion for several years, I guess fine minds think alike ;)?

Much easier to do here in the states as we can purchase a 3/8" to 1/4" NPT brass bushing and a 1/4" NPT brass nipple of the correct length at the hardware store. Only place I differ is I place a short spring under the element that serves to hold it up against the head. Somewhere on these pages is a write up if anyone has interest in it. Nice work.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:33:19 AM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel