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Author Topic: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2  (Read 12722 times)

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2018, 01:48:09 AM »
Hi Guys

Good news and other not so. right Cyl very good shape, left cyl has 2 pits 10cm below top. Right piston good condition, left more pitted on top.

By the way, the two pistons are aligned both with notch to left side (view from governor). Both has the light shade of inlet valve.

Cheers
VP

Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #91 on: October 20, 2018, 12:16:49 AM »
Kart is on the wheels...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 02:45:44 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2018, 10:22:42 AM »
Hi Everyone

Cleaning blocks and heads began. Lots of decades os dirt.

Bob and 38AC: take a look at the shape of pistons and in particular for that worned valve, and tell of your justice. Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Pedrosa
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 02:50:57 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

dax021

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2018, 10:30:22 AM »
Don't want to piss on your parade, but i doubt that that cart would last 5 minutes with my Sr2 standing on it.  Hope you prove me wrong though.

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2018, 10:36:35 AM »
Hi Dax021

So am I, and it's a Lister 12/2 not a Sr2. I think 12/2 it's twice the weight.

"What would become of man if there were no faith?"

BR
Pedrosa
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

Johndoh

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2018, 05:46:18 PM »
The valves look ok they need cleaned and reground I wouldn't like to be near the 12/2 when it starts balanced on that cart, madness IMO
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2018, 09:46:18 PM »
Hi JD

The cart, as has been said, is temporary to walk from side to side. Of course when it starts to work it has to have better stability and the platters have to be bigger.

Calm down that "Rome and Pavia were not made on the same day."

BR
VP

PS: That worn-out valve is worrying me ... a lot.
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2018, 11:37:23 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, opinion and advice:

Pistons: measure the diameter of the pistons, top and bottom, how much play is there in the gudgeon pins, what is the size of the piston ring slots?  If the pistons are significantly worn they will need replacing. If there is only minor wear then a set of new piston rings should be adequate. If you are concerned about the pitting in the top of the pistons a very thin skim on a lathe would probably be OK provided you allow for this when setting the bump clearance.

Valves: put the valves back in the head, how much play is there in the valve guides? Now put a straight edge across the face of the cylinder head and measure how deep into the head the face of the valves are. The correct depth is between 0.055 inch (min) & 0.100 inch (max)
If there is significant wear in the valve stems and guides they will need replacing. If the face of the valves is more than 0.100 inch below the surface then the head will need to have new seats fitted.

Cylinder: if there is pitting or significant wear then you will need to have a sleeve fitted and honed. Fitting new piston rings in worn bores is a bad idea as there is often a lip worn in the cylinder at the top. Your new top ring will hit this and very quickly fail. Some replacement ring sets come with a stepped top ring to allow for this but I doubt they are available for an original CS.

I am waiting for our local machinist to return from holiday, he is going to sleeve my cylinder and fit new seats to the head.

Good luck with the kart, I have faith in Pedrosa not in God, experience has taught me that prayer has no impact on the performance of anything mechanical!

Bob


38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2018, 02:13:29 PM »
Have seen that wear and damage at the top of the piston and above the top ring on many occasions and that would not cause me to replace them. The important things are skirt condition and wear, pin hole wear, top ring land wear (common)  and cracks(uncommon) and none of that can the determined from pictures.

Pictures can deceive but in the last picture the top valve face certainly looks to be worn beyond grinding and need to be replaced. The bottom one might clean up and still have a good margin left on it.  Proper attention to guide wear is important as is the valve depth once a seat is established. The entire procedure is kinda lengthy to type up step by step but suffice it to say that when I have seen valves in that condition in my shop they are accompanied by worn stems and guides and the seats are in need of serious attention.   

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 02:18:02 PM by 38ac »
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sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »
Hi folks

I'll add some more pictures to update info.
 
38ac:
skirt condition and wear seems to be ok (but I will still see with "the magnifying glass");

pin hole wear I think its ok because I needed to hit to make it slide;

top ring land wear (common)  - I'll measure the clearance;

and crancks still in shed...

Possibly (most certainly) I have to put a new seat in the valve, and a new valve;

All guides seems to be in good shape... but

Cheers.
Pedrosa
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:10:59 AM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2018, 12:49:47 AM »
Greetings

I made the measurements of the valves in the heads with the pachymeter, and I obtained:
Valve depth: Lin - 2.8mm (bad), Lex - 1.8mm; Rin 1.8mm, Rex 2.35mm;
Stems: Lin - 10.95mm, Lex - 10.95mm; Rin 10,95mm, Rex - 10,95mm;
Guides: Lin - 11.15mm, Lex - 11.15mm; Rin 11,15mm, Rex - 11.20mm.

Please state what is relevant to these measures.

Note that the measurements were made without springs, however I was careful to make the seating of the valves with whiteboard pen.

Cheers.
VP
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:13:15 AM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2018, 12:56:53 PM »
I work in the world of inches, feet, and miles didnt do the conversions because I am lazy.   I shoot for .002" clearance on the intake stems and .004" on the exhaust when renewing ahead.  Lister spec allows for .010" wear which I think is quite excessive.

A link link to specs on this site http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7359.30 

It helps to know that in the English engineering world you will find that the great bulk of the time that the I.D.  dimension will be to size and the clearance will be machined into the O.D. part.  Example A CS engine has a 2" crankshaft at the mains. The I.D. of a new shell will measure very close to 2.000" while the new crankshaft spec  is also 2.000" with a machining limit of -.002" - .0025"
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sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2018, 03:34:24 PM »
Hi 38ac

I understand that laziness. You don' got that need as I am.

Now I have to think about the imperial measures (and for a simple calculation just think that 0.100" = 2.54mm, and so on).

We still use BSP for tubing and tapering. BSW and BSF only in special cases, as in this case.

I do not need to have my12/2 working like a Swiss watch, but at least work well. The lathe service is quite expensive, but not only, allied to this is needed new valves and guides, and may still need new rings ... or even reboring (this bill will be very heavy ...). Not to mention parts have to be ordered from UK, or somewhere else.

"Money is expensive and often lacking!"

Cheers.
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

dieselspanner

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2018, 06:59:10 PM »
Hi VP

Having worked in both imperial and metric for years I can  switch between the two with little trouble, the only thing my head won't go around is fuel consumption for my car, it has to be in miles per gallon. Liters per 100 kilometers I can't envisage.

Down at engineering levels 40 thou (0.04") is a millimeter and easy to remember.

OK, it's 0.0393700787402 if you want to be picky!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2018, 11:33:53 PM »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx