Author Topic: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?  (Read 6481 times)

veggie

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WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« on: June 18, 2018, 12:53:26 AM »
Hi All,

I have a design question as I fabricate a WVO cleaning centrifuge.
My initial design shown below incorporates a single tank with the "Fuge" mounted above.
The 26 liter tank will incorporate a sight level tube and a 1000 watt heating element.
The idea of the small tank is that I can process a Gerry Can at a time for small batches.
There will be a small gear pump mounted on the side of the tank which continually circulates the WVO
 up to the centrifuge where it gets cleaned and falls back to the tank.
Theoretically, the longer the unit runs, the more passes the WVO gets through the centrifuge.

Most users of this type of Fuge have a two tank system. One above which uses gravity to the feed the Fuge, and one below to collect the cleaned oil. Then they pump the cleaned back oil up to the original tank for another pass. This ensures 100% contact time for all the oil.

My Question:
After a lot of Youtube digging, I have not seen anyone use a single tank system like mine which makes me wonder...
Will ALL of the oil pass through the centrifuge 100% or will there be pockets of un-cleaned oil that never make the loops?
For me, the single tank system is a real space saver and I don't mind leaving the system running longer in order to get multiple passes though the fuge. But will ALL the oil get processed given a long enough run time?

Anyone with experience with this?

Cheers,
Veggie

Tank = 7 Gal (26 liter)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:01:35 AM by veggie »
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mike90045

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 01:42:38 AM »
If you can keep the oil thin and agitated, for long enough, it will be clean "enough"   Since it's operating in "bypass" all the time, all the clean oil you put back in, gets dirty.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

At some point, you have to put the clean oil somewhere.

veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 03:18:16 AM »
At some point, you have to put the clean oil somewhere.

Ha..Ha...Yes, after several processing loops with the centrifuge spinning at 5000 rpm, the oil should be very clean.
At that point a valve gets opened and the pump pushes the processed oil into a clean oil storage tank.
Then the green centrifuge tank gets filled again with dirty oil.
The fats and particles collect on the inner wall of the centrifuge drum for cleaning later.
That's the plan anyway.  ;)

The Drum was purchased from a centrifuge manufacturer and mounts on the shaft you see in the center of the housing base..
The housing was fabricated from pipe.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:20:33 AM by veggie »
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EdDee

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 03:18:13 PM »
Hi V,

While it will certainly clean the vast bulk of the debris, I, personally, am going a slightly different route in the bits I am getting together... I will be using a "fill tank" to dribble the oil through the fuge first time round to collect most of the junk... thereafter it will be a single tank system which will recirculate until shut down...

Just my 0.00c worth.....

Cheers
Ed
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BruceM

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 03:41:08 PM »
Ed's first pass filtering should dramatically reduce total processing time and energy to the same quality output, for those that care about that aspect.  Nice bit of practical engineering, Ed.

veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 07:20:23 PM »
Hi V,

While it will certainly clean the vast bulk of the debris, I, personally, am going a slightly different route in the bits I am getting together... I will be using a "fill tank" to dribble the oil through the fuge first time round to collect most of the junk... thereafter it will be a single tank system which will recirculate until shut down...

Hi Ed,

In a similar fashion, my raw oil will pass through a fine screen on the way into the single tank.
Everything else should get trapped by the centrifuge when subjected to 3000 G's (5000 rpm).

Based on the input from you fellas, I will proceed with a single tank system and see how it works out.

cheers,
Veggie
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veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 07:31:49 PM »
EdDee

Whilst I do not intend to run waste motor oil, there are many that do. Your centrifuge system should be a big help.
Here's what some are removing from their WMO...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCRXNTQgIv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Hys3VPgl0

keep us posted...
Veggie
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AdeV

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 08:19:04 AM »
I started to make my own bowl using an old car brake drum... but I'm wondering if I shouldn't machine up an aluminium one from scratch... I'm concerned that the brake drum may not have enough strength to stay together at the sort of speeds I'm planning to rotate it.

Can I ask you a favour Veggie - how much does your bowl weigh, with lid? That's something else I'm contending with... the weight of the cast iron brake drum + a steel lid, might be a bit excessive...
Cheers!
Ade.
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veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 02:17:46 PM »
Can I ask you a favour Veggie - how much does your bowl weigh, with lid? That's something else I'm contending with... the weight of the cast iron brake drum + a steel lid, might be a bit excessive...

Hi AdeV, the spinning bowl does not have a lid.
Oil overflows the bowl and is caught in the outer chamber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsLGX-RbKuQ
The bow weighs about 5 lbs.
I got it here...
https://www.wvodesigns.com/rpc-poboy-kit.html.html
It comes with a special taper lock hub which anchors it to a 5/8 shaft.

Hi Glort,
Fortunately the oil I get has very little water. (I trained them well  ;) )
However...there is always some water and my experience is that these types of centrifuges do a pretty good job of dewatering if the oil is hot enough.
In this example (not mine) you can see the steam leaving the processed oil ( at the 1:00 minute mark ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OksXHSWidMs
My unit has vapour ports in the lid and in the discharge line to channel moisture out.
1st generation fuges spin at 3600 rpm motor speed but with the use of 3 phase motors and variable frequency drives newer fuges can now run up to 6000 rpm making over 4000 g's. That really takes advantage of the sight specific gravity differences between water and oil. My thoughts are that multiple passes should eventually leave the oil quite dry, but until I run it ...I won't know for sure.

onward,
Veggie
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 02:25:54 PM by veggie »
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AdeV

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 08:17:09 PM »

Not so much the weight you have to worry about Ade, it's the balance.

...

For a brake drum you could work out the rotational RPM at say 100 MPH and then spin the thing equivalent of say 150 with safety.  As long as the drum is in good Nick to start with and balanced, you should have no problems.


Balance - agreed... and I have no way to balance it other than statically, which is almost certainly not good enough... However.. my unit will be nowhere near 25l in capacity; that must have been a bloody monster of a machine!

I reckon the capacity of my brake drum, by the time you've added the centre spigot & lid, will be around 1.5-2 litres tops. It's about a foot/30cm across, if I recall correctly, and about 5"/12cm deep. I'd like to spin it as fast as humanly possible...

Assuming it used to live inside a 13" wheel (which seems about right, given its age), that would have had a 4 or 5" sidewall tyre fitted, so about 23" total rotational size, which is about 72" circumference (handy), or 6ft.

100mph is 8,800ft/min, so the brake drum is doing 1470rpm just about. So your safety margin gives me 2200rpm. I was hoping for at least 3600, and maybe even higher...

Next up - work out how many g's that is. That's beyond me tonight... I'll have a go tomorrow.


Anyway, as I wouldn't trust it not to explode at very high speeds, I intend to wrap it in a 5mm thick steel enclosure. I guess I should be able to calculate the centrifugal forces on the side of the bowl at a given RPM, then assume a 1lb lump flies off I can calculate the energy in that when it strikes the outer casing, which will tell me if I need to put a second 5mm steel ring around the inner one for protection purposes... although I might just do that anyway. Steel is a LOT cheaper than internal organs, and a damn site easier to replace...
Cheers!
Ade.
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mike90045

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 05:11:39 AM »
.... then assume a 1lb lump flies off I can calculate the energy in that when it strikes the outer casing, which will tell me if I need to put a second 5mm steel ring around the inner one for protection purposes.........

Once one lump flies off, I would assume the rest would follow in the next half second. So all the unbalanced drum will be shedding into your containment ring.   And if there is a spark and the oil is hot enough......

veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2018, 06:27:31 PM »
UPDATE:

The project is slowly moving along.
I am now in the process of adding the circulation pump and interconnecting tubing.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 07:44:12 PM by veggie »
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veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2018, 06:29:27 PM »
Inline oil heater made from a pipe with threaded connections welded in place.
1000 watt , 120 volt element.
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veggie

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2018, 06:41:35 PM »
PROBLEM !

I am using a small 12 volt gear pump to move the oil around.
It runs fine when connected directly to 12 volts, but my plan was to drive it with a 12 volt PWM motor speed controller so that I can finely control the flow rate of the oil through the centrifuge.
When I tested the PWM controller on this 12 volt pump, the pump ran at a fixed speed regardless of where I dialed the Pot on the PWM controller. After 15 seconds there was a lot of "Magic Smoke" coming out of the PWM controller. GAME OVER  :'(

(The PWM controller cost me $17 so it's not a big loss)

My question to the group is...
Any idea why this controller would run my 12VDC fertilizer sprayer pump at various speeds but then cook itself when trying to drive this 12 VDC gear pump. Both pumps use 4 amps and the PWM modulator is rated higher than that.

Could it be Brusless vs. Brush type ?
I would really like to be able to vary the speed on this Gear pump.
Any ideas?

Here is the pump... (not the same seller as I used but still the same pump)
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/12V-Scavenge-Gear-Pump-Diesel-Fuel-Scavenge-Oil-Transfer-US-FAST-SHIP-Black-Pump/151707363632?epid=1441247850&hash=item235276a930:g:mX4AAOSwIeFbMwqt

Here's the pump...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 06:43:16 PM by veggie »
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AdeV

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Re: WVO Centrifuge Design - thoughs ?
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2018, 07:36:34 PM »
Possibly the pump ended up drawing a much larger than rated current. I've got a similar pump, when I tried loading it up through a spray head, it shot over it's 4amp rating, I think it peaked at about 9 amps.

I'm not sure why those gear pumps are so much more expensive than similarly rated diaphragm pumps. In my experiments, the latter never went over their rated ampage,  and produced a far superior pressure. They're also capable of holding back mains pressure water, which simply sluices through a gear pump like it wasn't there...

(I know: Why bother with a pump when you've got mains water, right? Metering... and solenoid or motorised valves are far too slow acting when faced with a bar or so of mains water... stop the pump, the flow stops instantly).
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.