Author Topic: Wondering if anyone can help  (Read 3589 times)

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 10:41:21 PM »
And the exhaust is shifted too!

BruceM

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 11:32:09 PM »
Great, you have now solidly confirmed Stef's diagnosis of the engine having been reassembled incorrectly, with the cam gear off a tooth. Now you must remove the camshaft to move the cam gear a tooth or two in the right direction on the crank gear.

I've never heard a single mention of a Lister D here on this forum and am clueless on them myself, but maybe someone can help you with how to tackle that job.  if not just figure out how to get that camshaft lose.  Marking the teeth with marker or paint so you can check your work is a good idea.

BruceM

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 12:06:19 AM »
In this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kTLd8wQUuI
I see that your camshaft and reduction gear are an easy to remove assembly.  Next step is to figure out how to disassemble that assembly so you can correct the cam gear position.


dieselspanner

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2018, 09:34:02 AM »
Hi James,

Here's the answer, at the bottom of the page, marked 'Timing valves'!

http://craigmarshall.org.uk/content/lister-d-dk-instructions

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

BruceM

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2018, 04:08:26 PM »
Bravo, Stef!

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 09:08:24 AM »
For future reference for anyone else with this type of engine, the valves in this engine CANNOT be adjusted at all, other than to be 180 degrees out (by having the cam lobe in the preceding picture pointing down instead of up). That is the only Ďadjustmentí that is possible (ie getting it 180 degrees out). After that, no further adjustment whatsoever can be made. Therefore, talk of the timing being ďone tooth outĒ as is mentioned even in the literature about this engine, is actually incorrect.

Stationary Engine Magazine on the Lister D restoration (book sold on eBay...a compilation of a serialised article in the magazine) is similarly inaccurate. There is a paragraph which says that the exhaust valve starts to open at 12 degrees before TDC. This is absolutely incorrect. Were it to open before TDC it would blast fuel out of the carb mouth. In fact, it opens approx 12 degrees AFTER TDC on the induction stroke. That is, it starts Ďsuckingí when the piston is on its way down the barrel, not still on its way up. This magazine also states that the valve timing can be ďone tooth outĒ which is complete nonsense. Even if the entire cam assembly were stripped into its component parts, it still cannot be reassembled incorrectly as the cogs and the shafts they locate on have semicircular indentations which match up and are secured with a round pin...so no adjustment possible there either

I bought another Lister D yesterday and travelled to Leicestershire in England to meet a lovely elderly man who has about 20 engines of various types, all restored by him. He used these engines on farms is an expert on the. He immediately said that the valve timing, whilst adjustable on many engines, is NOT adjustable on the Lister D (other than getting it 180 degrees out). He suggested that the magazine (a classic from years ago) had simply confused valve timing with magneto timing.

So, having bottomed that out and compared the two engines (which are identical in terms of valve timing), Iím still no further in making it work. I suspect itís the magneto which produces a spark in the bench but not in the cylinder...so Iím going to rig up an ignition coil and battery to see it that will make the engine fire...if so, Iíll then see if I can find a replacement magneto....

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 05:06:46 PM »


I've never heard a single mention of a Lister D here on this forum and am clueless on them myself, but maybe someone can help you with how to tackle that job.  if not just figure out how to get that camshaft lose.  Marking the teeth with marker or paint so you can check your work is a good idea.
Itís very common here.they made 250,000 of them

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 09:06:00 PM »
A little update. I worked up a good sweat cranking the non-running engine this afternoon. It would not start, or die or give any indication whatsoever of life. The magneto was producing a spark on the bench..a nice fat blue spark. And also when the magneto was on the engine and plug grounded against the cylinder head. But the engine would not fire even though the engine actually ran when I bought it. So.....I swapped the magneto from the second (working) engine which I just bought. The engine fired IMMEDIATELY on the first crank and ran thereafter without a problem.

So.....Iíve learned some good things here which might be of interest to anyone else with this type of Lister engine..the Lister D. Firstly, a working magneto can stop functioning correctly very quickly and give every indication that it is OK by producing a spark on the bench. But itís actually not working properly because it wonít spark under compression. Secondly, the canon of wisdom in the books, magazines and internet can be totally incorrect, leading to confusion and much hair-pulling. Quit honestly, Iím amazed that supposedly knowledgeable sources, actually in print, can get it so wrong!

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 09:08:38 PM »
Ps the magneto is a Lucas RS1, by the way. Apparently, an after market replacement (the Wipac or Wico A) was produced because the Lucas was prone to failure.

Jamesengland

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 09:13:09 PM »
Great, you have now solidly confirmed Stef's diagnosis of the engine having been reassembled incorrectly, with the cam gear off a tooth. Now you must remove the camshaft to move the cam gear a tooth or two in the right direction on the crank gear.

I've never heard a single mention of a Lister D here on this forum and am clueless on them myself, but maybe someone can help you with how to tackle that job.  if not just figure out how to get that camshaft lose.  Marking the teeth with marker or paint so you can check your work is a good idea.
it was a good guess but not correct, Iím afraid. But every little helps, as they say and everything is worth investigating. I think maybe Iím on the wrong forum though, if youíve never heard of a Lister D. It was the ubiquitous, much-used agricultural engine of the Ďforties and Ďfifties, certainly here in the U.K. maybe not popular elsewhere?

AdeV

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2018, 11:52:17 PM »
... the Lucas was prone to failure.

Lucas wasn't known as the Prince of Darkness for nothing! (similarly unreliable lightbulbs... not to mention entire electrical systems, see anything made by BL until about 1980ish)
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

broncodriver99

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2018, 11:57:53 PM »
... the Lucas was prone to failure.

Lucas wasn't known as the Prince of Darkness for nothing! (similarly unreliable lightbulbs... not to mention entire electrical systems, see anything made by BL until about 1980ish)

Isn't that the truth. A good read.  ;D http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html

M61hops

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Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2018, 12:54:24 AM »
My favorite Tee shirt read "The British drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators."  ???  I instantly knew who had worked on British cars.
I pray everyday giving thanks that I have one of the "fun" mental disorders!