Author Topic: The future of electric Vehicles.  (Read 41936 times)

AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #150 on: April 25, 2018, 10:03:01 PM »
Quote
  But I forget, Lister Engine Forum is a safe house for Horders.

Yeah, not this little black Duck any more. I have the ute loaded ATM with junk ready to put in the Dumpsters.
Learned my lesson, not going back to that insanity again. Still lots to shift but at least I now recognise the problem.  :0)

Don't worry, I'm still here, and I'm a confirmed hoarder :D

See attached photos of my "work"shop (or junk pile, as someone uncharitable might refer to it). This does not include the motley collection of vehicles which live out in the rain... (3 cars, 1 van, none roadworthy).
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Thob

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #151 on: April 25, 2018, 10:23:14 PM »
Dang, AdeV, I wish my shop was that neat!  At least light reaches the floor in some areas of your shop.
Witte 98RC Gas burner - Kubota D600 w/ST7.5KW head.
I'm not afraid to take anything apart.
I am sometimes afraid I'm not going to get it back together.

AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #152 on: April 28, 2018, 08:19:08 PM »

Don't worry, I'm still here, and I'm a confirmed hoarder :D


PfffT!

You are just trying to show off and make the rest of us Envious.... and it's working!  :-[

Look at that place!  The size, The machinery, The Treasure!!
Ok I'm sure some of it could do with a little organising and perhaps a bit of thinning out but Damn!, That is one magnificent shed!


The shed's not bad (It has a god-fearing roof: very holy), but yes it's an awesome size: 3800sq/ft of floor space, approx. I occupy about 2800sq/ft of that, including a 400sq/ft office that I built myself. Lurking under the mezzanine floor is a pretty fully equipped workshop. Not everything works, e.g. the CNC lathe needs a serious coat of looking at, and some of it's not accessible right now (the shaper's tucked away, if I tried to use it it'd be like swinging a bull in a very small china shop), but eventually it'll get straightened out. And yes, thinned down somewhat...
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #153 on: April 29, 2018, 12:30:33 AM »
Happiness is a state of mind.

I guess we all are just a mass of stupids being lead around by one fake news story after another.  The move to electric everything is on the march.  I'm tagging along.

Cheers,

Won't be leading due to limited energy capacity and long charge times .

mikenash

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #154 on: April 29, 2018, 04:06:17 AM »
I wonder how much of how we feel about the potential for an electric "future" is to do with infrastructure - certainly much of the conversation so far has been around that

Down here at the bottom of the world 85% of our electricity is from the two renewable source of hydro and wind; and, lots of the time our wind turbines are turned off because there is adequate water in the hydro dams and that is a cheaper generation system

We have recently elected a more left/green-leaning government and they are talking about taking two important steps to grow an electric fleet:  having government & local bodies buy electric cars (which will put them into the national pool when they are rolled over) and adding a levy to the importation of new cars to subsidise/promote the importation of EVs (mostly used Leafs ex-Japan ATM I guess)

These are small steps, but, when added to the increasing uptake of grid-tied solar (not a particularly rewarding deal $$-wise, but a beginning), I think they represent the beginnings of a change of viewpoint around energy

Our is a small country, with a great many commuters for whom an EV is potentially a very good option, and - although it has been a failure the first time around - we have considerable experience with electrification of rail networks

I suspect that the "feeling" of the coming generation is that we have lots of green electricity, can easily produce more if we need it, and that the current model of individual ownership of several large fossil-fuel-burning vehicles is a relic of my generation, not theirs

Just to be clear - I personally own several 2-litre size vehicles, drive a Hilux ute something like 50,000 Ks a year, have owned dozens of "play" motorcycles and have just sold my personal "toy" 6-tonne Hino truck.  I'm not talking about my generation - I'm looking forward towards my grandchildren's future

Just my $0.02

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #155 on: April 29, 2018, 10:13:42 AM »
Hey Guys and Girls, Glort is absolutely right about geo thermal energy being the future for electricity generation. The problem is the drilling depth that is required to harvest it. There are a great many countries around the world that have geo thermal resources close to the surface, the problem is that those countries also have volcanoes and earthquakes. Therefore the investment is too dangerous as any generating plant could be destroyed or disable the day after it opens.

My personal opinion is that public transport is the way forward for city dwellers, be that electric or fossil fuel. I am not advocating for the sort of public transport systems we currently have where you stand on a platform in the rain waiting for a train or bus that never arrives. I think something more along the Uber model would be ideal with fast shuttles regularly available at every corner.

When is the government going to start to encourage people to stop commuting and work from home? If your job entails sitting in front of a computer why do you have to travel across town to do it? The recent advances in robotics suggest that factory work is also going to be a thing of the past so we can get those commuters off the road.

For those of us that live in rural areas electric vehicles are a non starter; cost, reliability and the distance from town make them non viable. However us hillbillies don`t have to heat our homes with fossil fuels, we just burn the timber that naturally falls on our properties.

I suspect that governments are struggling with an insoluble problem; finite resources and a growing population. What they are going to do about it is anybody's guess.

Bob

buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #156 on: April 29, 2018, 03:44:07 PM »

Fuel in NZ is very exy compared to here.  Is there a lot of tax on it?  More of the price of a litre of fuel here is tax than it is for the product.
People bitch about oil co's and the arabs but ones really doing the rorting are the gubbermint that make more money than anyone else and do nothing but collect the taxes ( on taxes as it is here) .

If Fuel is the huge cash cow for the gubbermint there as it is here, They will be out to make sure they maintain their revenue stream.
They will phase something in to do that or keep the EV's as lip service only.

A realistic observation on the potenial of EV's would be generation capacity. There is a big difference between having the base product ( water in this case) and being able to put it to work ( Hydro plants) . If the infrastructure is there to turn up the wick and make more power to feed the EV's, you are on a winner. If there would need to be more/ larger dams and plants..... That's a whole different story as is the distribution capacity of the grid even if there is the facilities in place which will just allow opening another valve and making more power. 

Maybe if demand for power for EV's exceeds the current Hydro capacity, The gubbermint could make more use of the thermal you have there.
Seems an under utilised power source if ever there were one.

What is this very expensive shift to Electric and it's drawbacks supposed to achieve ?

buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles. , fuel and road tax
« Reply #157 on: April 29, 2018, 03:46:31 PM »
  Anyone ever wonder what will happen with all these electric vehicles and the government loosing tax revenue on fuel. The EV drivers will have to pay more taxes and fees to recover the loss of ICE revenue.
  The EV will cost more per mile than the ICE .

mike90045

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #158 on: April 29, 2018, 03:55:04 PM »
Geothermal power is not cheap to maintain. the water picks up lots of minerals and as the steam cools, the minerals settle out on the machinery, and have to be acid washed off.

mikenash

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #159 on: April 29, 2018, 09:03:46 PM »



What is this very expensive shift to Electric and it's drawbacks supposed to achieve ?

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Firstly, for government it is revenue-neutral and tax-neutral

Secondly, for users, there is a saving to be made if you adopt an EV at some point in the future.  There is no cost at all if you continue to drive your current vehicle.  There may be extra cost if you buy a new vehicle

For those New Zealanders who voted for the Labour/Green government I would guess that it reduces New Zealand's contribution to the greenhouse gas burden of the planet - but does so in a way that does not make us, as a country, less competitive than we were previously with those of our trading partners who do not adopt such measures - as we might become if we did other unilateral things like adding carbon taxes etc

That's just a layman's understanding, though

(and, of course you are right Mr B&D lol)

Cheers, Mike

mikenash

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #160 on: April 29, 2018, 09:56:43 PM »



What is this very expensive shift to Electric and it's drawbacks supposed to achieve ?

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Firstly, for government it is revenue-neutral and tax-neutral

Secondly, for users, there is a saving to be made if you adopt an EV at some point in the future.  There is no cost at all if you continue to drive your current vehicle.  There may be extra cost if you buy a new vehicle

For those New Zealanders who voted for the Labour/Green government I would guess that it reduces New Zealand's contribution to the greenhouse gas burden of the planet - but does so in a way that does not make us, as a country, less competitive than we were previously with those of our trading partners who do not adopt such measures - as we might become if we did other unilateral things like adding carbon taxes etc

That's just a layman's understanding, though

(and, of course you are right Mr B&D lol)

Cheers, Mike

And, yes, we have geothermal.  Cheaper than wind but more expensive than hydro - but probably coming down in price over time as the tech matures

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #161 on: April 30, 2018, 09:26:46 AM »
Very interesting point Glort makes about Granny getting the bill to fuel all the relatives cars at xmas. I wonder how many employees will get fired for plugging their EV into the power supply at work without permission. I predict a whole new criminal activity with unscrupulous people craftily charging their vehicles from any supply they can find, at the expense of someone else. It is also likely that more people will illegally bypass the meter in their home to avoid the costs. (Not difficult, most cannabis factories do exactly that). I wonder who will have to pay to cover all this energy theft, insurance companies don`t cover it, so I guess it will just be added to the honest consumers energy bill plus the government taxes for using too much energy!

Lock up your power points, the criminals are coming to get you!

Bob

 

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #162 on: April 30, 2018, 09:58:49 AM »
Further to my previous prediction here is another. The government and energy companies will have to force the introduce of  on board metering on all EVs to prevent energy theft. In the name of consumer protection this will come with a built in GPS tracking device which will prove how much energy you have used and invade your privacy. Later that data will become available to the police to track your movements. This will be followed up by a massive data breach giving criminals access to your energy and personal information.

God help us, big brother is beginning to look like a saint.

Bob

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #163 on: April 30, 2018, 04:43:47 PM »
I've read an engineer's report on the internals of the AMI brand smart meters.  Primitive in that there was no filtering on the supply side, thus the meter would violate an FCC conducted emissions test except of course the power co is exempt. No protection from EMP, spikes or EMI on the power line either.  It was cheaply made like consumer "disposable" electronics.   Anti-tampering would be through the detection of interruption of power if the meter was pulled; compared to neighboring meters with no interruption of power and you'll get a visit.   

Magnets were effective for the old style meters but other than perhaps saturating the current transformer core (unlikely to be effective), I don't see that being effective here.  Since big brother is watching your meter daily, a reduction in power use might trigger a site inspection. All they have to do is inspect the security seal/wires on the meter side of the box. 

I'm sure they would have no problem spending 1000x more on "security" than is saved by the effort; it all just gets passed on and the "regulators"; here in AZ they are openly bought by paying for their campaigns. 

This business of destabilizing the grid is power co. propaganda.  They are just protecting their vested interests instead of working on solutions.  Nationalizing the grid is one way to solve that problem, but it's possible to attempt to manage private grid operators; though Australia's experience with that, like California's early deregulation experience, has been painful for public pocketbook.  What a shocking surprise, each corporate interest acts to increase it's own profitability.

Denmark has had peaks of well over 50% wind power already...and their power reliability and stability is one of the best in the world.  It seems that tracking weather forecasts and actual vs predicted output does work, at least for a nationalized grid management.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/does-denmark-hold-the-key-to-integrating-large-amounts-of-intermittent-rene#gs.kYHAtAs

"Smart" meters were and are a farce. No savings have been demonstrated, anywhere, and the national security issues are profound since they have been proven to be readily hackable. These concerns were raised publicly by retired seniors of the CIA and NSA but were ignored.





buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #164 on: May 01, 2018, 02:24:46 AM »
Actually the local distribution system can be destabilized by the surges and harmonics from the induction motors used as generators in large wind turbines . The trip parameters have to be widened or the turbines will trip protective relays .
  An cloudy day with intermittent sun can also trip line protective devices .
  Generally speaking , the max generating capacity in a distribution line can not exceed the amount of power used during the lowest demand intervals .
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 02:51:39 PM by buickanddeere »