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Author Topic: The future of electric Vehicles.  (Read 40400 times)

buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2018, 02:46:14 PM »
Al Gore and friends have made billions on rate payer subsidized solar and wind . Tax breaks and selling the carbon credits . Somebody’s company  gets paid for all the studies, surveys , engineering and legal work that was invented. .

oldgoat

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2018, 03:20:52 PM »
Which escrow account do you cover the costs of accidents such as Windscale Fukushima and Chernobyl from. Just watched a documentary on resealing the Chernobyl reactor it will last for 100 years but who will look after it until the radiation falls to a safe level which I suspect will take a little longer than that.

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2018, 05:38:11 PM »
While nuclear facilities in most countries are required to contribute to 3rd party insurance pools,  liabilities are capped by law and the hosting government assumes liability.  In the US the Price Anderson act does this and the pool insurance limit of $12 billion is clearly grossly inadequate, as Fukishima demonstrates.  Other estimates of $5 trillion for a major accident have been made, others at $500 billion.  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149197016300415

Saying that nuclear power plants are insured, while in fact they have pushed liability for a serious accident onto taxpayers is the sort of slight of hand the industry is famous for. 

The same slight of hand through manipulation is used to cover up the spent  fuel issue; in the US the spent fuel disposal cost is artificially low (set by government) yet the government has in fact no disposal system; the failed Yucca mountain program is scientifically recognized as a technical farce. 

The power industry has been manipulating governments and legislation and propagandizing the public since their inception.  They are masters at it, far better than the tobacco companies. They continue.  One good book on the topic is "Power Struggle" by Rudolph and Ridley. 

They will continue to do what any large corporation does by charter- maximize shareholder profits by any means possible. Our world needs to incentivize moral and social values for large corporations, somehow.  We have created a monster.

There are plenty of good articles about the grim financial realities of nuclear power; they have failed miserably on the economic level because of huge cost overruns in construction, high operating costs, and short operational life (due to radioactive embrittlement of the critical plumbing in cooling systems), even ignoring the real costs of waste storage.  The problem isn't a liberal conspiracy.

As a former engineer I very much like the look of new fission nuclear designs which don't rely on an active cooling system for shut downs.  This would avoid Fukishima type disasters.  (In retrospect, you have to wonder about why you would press into a service a design that required a huge functioning active cooling system for extended periods on "shut down").  Alas, initial trials of "pebble bed" did not look good from what I've read.  Perhaps someday we will even have fusion power, but for now, it seems that "fusion at a distance" (the sun) is our best bet for nuclear energy.

















« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 05:40:29 PM by BruceM »

LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2018, 06:42:35 PM »
If you don't understand that much of the military industrial complex associated with the US endeavors in the middle East aren't a subsidy to oil then you should think about the lack of activity in tragic parts of Africa. 

I'd like you to tell people living near the Hanford project in Central Washington, USA that we've got the nuclear waste problem under control.  How many decades has it been now?

Wake up and smell the solar.

The fake news I listen to at this time reports that both solar and wind power are less expensive to build, maintain and decommission.  My observation is they don't go "Boom-Boom" so real men aren't attracted to them.  Planned, sensible and sustainable are just very tough sales in America.

I test drove an BMW I3.  A very nice ride but quiet and efficient; again, a tough sale.  How about those electrical producers that are now giving $10,000 rebates to I3 buyers in some parts of California.  What's up?

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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2018, 11:45:05 PM »
Regarding using Hiroshima as an example of the safety of nuclear power; very little hard radiation is left in the area of a bomb blast.  It is in fact now spread over the entire planet.  This is vastly different from the situation of Fukishima.
A good article and interview with the former Prime Minister of Japan, who was a physicist and former supporter of nuclear power.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fukushima-disaster-and-the-future-of-nuclear-power-in-japan-an-interview-with-former-prime-minister-kan-naoto/5547438




LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2018, 06:04:29 PM »
Hmmmm - The sound of deep thought.  Yeah, I'm scared too.  Aren't atomic bombs designed to exploded high above the particulate matter referred to as earth and allowing half of the radiation to broadcast into space?  This system also might greatly reduce the molecular poisoning that hangs around longer than our time references really grasp.

This could be why so many educated people are so concerned about those stupid ole reactor meltdowns.

Back to basics.  Have you seen the two Honda electrics teased as 2019 and 2020 production cars.  Nice people sized cars going back to what cars are primarily for: Transportation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddD1bOUMWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4HQO-7btuM
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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2018, 07:25:53 PM »
Next would be adding PV to "shaded" parking in the US southwest, at least.  What isn't being used for cars could feed the stores and/or grid.  Large employers could offer this so that slow solar charging during work hours could be the norm.  Covering the vast acreages of parking lots, now black asphalt, with PV might help lower the night time temperatures here also.   

It's difficult to come up with a carbon scheme that will not be a debacle, but with the right incentives, I think everyone in sunny climes with the capital to do it would be looking at parking lots and other open spaces as clean power revenue.  Shifting power use to daytime needs to be part of it.  Being off grid makes you think that way in a hurry. 




dieselspanner

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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2018, 05:10:33 AM »
You forgot to adjust for marketing bullshit in your car charging calculations.  No way are they going to full up charge that thing in 15 minutes;  more likely it's only 50-80% State of Charge.

A PV parking charge at an employee parking lot would only have to do a slow charge (8 hrs) typically.  A single parking spot roof frame could hold the area of about (7) 300W panels so about an average of 1.5KW x 8hrs = 12KWA.
Tesla owners say 305WH/mile so 12KWA is 39 miles.   That might work for many.

For myself,  I hope algae oil progresses so I can keep my old '85 mechanically injected MB300D going all the way to my funeral.  It's got a PV panel on the roof to keep the battery charged instead of an alternator.  I tell people it cuts fuel consumption by almost 50% just for fun. 





dieselspanner

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2018, 07:30:26 AM »
That's interesting, Bruce.

It makes it sound useful for those who have 20 mile commute, from an RAC report I saw recently the average in the UK is a little over 10 miles, so there must be some promise in it, even allowing for our crappy weather.

I'm sure I could work this out, well probably, but how far will the Tesla 40 ton truck travel if the roof of the trailer was covered in solar panels and it was in full sunlight?

Glort, what size charging system would the truck need to top up over an eight hour stop?

Cheers Stef
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oldgoat

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2018, 11:13:49 AM »
350 Kw chicken feed. Our local IGA store had to fit a 4500 kva transformer supply probably to feed the miles of friges and freezers they have not to mention the acre of air conditioning. You could line up a dozen EV's at the same time and put 48 through in an hour and have traffic lights to co-ordinate them.

AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2018, 12:32:03 PM »
Quote
You could line up a dozen EV's at the same time and put 48 through in an hour and have traffic lights to co-ordinate them.

Given that's around 50% less than an equivalent petrol/gas station could handle with the same number of "pumps", you either need 50% more charging stations, of 50% more gas stations to accomodate the same number of EVs as you currently handle petrol/diesel.

Something else currently un-discussed: When the Government starts losing big chunks of revenue, because people stop buying petrol/diesel for road use (which, in the UK in particular, is very heavily taxed; the USA less so), they're going to need to raise it some other way. Expect each KW of "road electricity" to cost $$$ more than regular "house" electricity. And your shiny new smart meter (if you've got one...) will be neatly reporting every erg of energy that goes into your road vehicle, so you can be taxed $$$ on it.
Cheers!
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mike90045

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2018, 06:36:12 PM »
...I'm sure I could work this out, well probably, but how far will the Tesla 40 ton truck travel if the roof of the trailer was covered in solar panels and it was in full sunlight?.....

"Full sunlight"   That means not flat on roof , but angled to be perpendicular to sun, on a moving trailer, not feasible

 Might add a couple dozen miles in daytime, >30 miles additional range, doubtful.

LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2018, 07:00:04 PM »
"Java"  That's a neat program.  I wonder how pumped the article is compared to reality?  We put our grounds in the compost but we live in the sticks.  As fuel or new soil or ??? this represents interesting thinking for a waste product that will help clean up the waste bins and landfills. 

So while your thinking of all the reasons that this won't work you might remember that China is getting too rich to sort through our rubbish to eke out a living.  Perhaps their learning that burning our trash is a filthy solution because we throw in petroleum based crap that poisons the air all over again.  We need this kind of small but colossal thinking. 

https://fusiontables.google.com/DataSource?docid=1C-fn6nSe21acP0xJIO1T1x0wohqfMYCQyJjbqdk#rows:id=1  The UK is 44th and the US is 25th.  How about thos scandinavians?  Now there are some heavy Java users.  Elon should start a coffee house chain with Tesla charging stations.  Of course this might be vertical monopoly and require a government study.

One of the interesting things I pick up in reading (Okay, the first couple of paragraphs) these many threads about change is the lack of a systems approach.  When change occurs, and it does all the time, is the failure to understand that real change is the result of many small changes to facilitate the new way of doing things.

The Hondas are small.  The same suit just doesn't fit everyone.  Smaller cars equal bigger roads.

The solar panels might provide enough energy to run HVAC needs of the trailer.  We need to stop looking for the Lone Ranger silver bullet solutions.  Polio vaccines are a once in a lifetime occurrence.   Did you know B. Franklin's son died of small pox motivating Ben to become very active in small pox vaccination programs in the early United states?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/04/ben-franklin-lost-a-son-to-smallpox-heres-his-sobering-advice-to-parents-on-immunization/?utm_term=.c0e2f156a142  Pretty interesting huh - How we have to go through the same old stuff so many times to get the message.  Polio still lives in a few countries that are religiously dominated. 
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mike90045

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2018, 12:00:40 AM »
Here's an idea.
  Rechargeable on the fly, electric trains. 
 Put high voltage overhead lines in urban areas, (where here in USA, trains creep along at 10mph) and charge up battery banks, that then take over when out of the city.  Maybe leave a diesel/electric loco in the train for the long x-country hauls or hills