Author Topic: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel  (Read 5390 times)

ajaffa1

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Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« on: February 20, 2018, 11:11:13 PM »
Hey Guys, been too unwell to do much so I`ve been doing a lot of reading and thinking about what sort of shed I should build to house my CS when it is done. I mentioned before that I have an underground exhaust coupled to my ST2, I would like to exhaust the CS into the same system. I think a couple of brass gate valves could be used to isolate the two engines so I don`t get a problem with exhaust fumes/condensation getting into the non running engine.

Sharing the underground exhaust system pretty much determines where the new shed will be so the first thing will be to pour the concrete slab. I`ve been looking at Glorts` keep it simple WVO set up and I`m considering using the heat generated by the CS to heat a barrel of WVO to dry it. Obviously WVO would not be a suitable coolant for the CS so I am considering using a swimming pool heat exchanger(see Pic). This would require a coolant pump on the CS as it would not thermo syphon with a heat exchanger. I am thinking of a simple coolant system with a header tank, open to atmosphere. This will contain water and an inhibitor to prevent corrosion, frost is not an issue where I live.

The primary use for the CS will be to drive a 3 phase generator head for a lathe and milling machine. Probably a 3KW motor wired to generate. I should be able to use one leg off this to drive  a drying fan and pump to dry the WVO as per Glorts` video on YouTube.

Dry oil can then be pumped into the fuel tank for the CS and also the ST2.

Thoughts please

Bob

BruceM

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 01:58:07 AM »
+1 for oil cooling. There's a long history of oil being used for primary engine cooling-  including the Rumely oil pull tractor in the US which also used the engine exhaust induced air cooling of the oil filled radiator. 

The Rumely had a single cylinder kerosene engine with a 10 inch bore and 12 inch stroke.  That's a thumper. Good article and a video link with audio worth watching and hearing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumely_Oil_Pull 

No fan, the exhaust stack is pulling fresh air in through the radiator.  I stole that induced draft method for my CS and found only a tiny area of radiator is needed.  Oil has much less heat carrying capacity than water but would certainly be more than adequate for our small engines.  The higher operating temperature allowed would be a nice plus for efficiency and less fuel related deposits.


ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 06:05:46 AM »
Thanks guys, food for thought. If I could safely use strained WVO as the coolant I could raise the coolant drum and use thermo syphoning rather than a coolant pump. Would heated oil thermo syphon? I was considering fitting a thermostat in the coolant system to bring the engine up to temperature quicker. Anyone know if a standard thermostat would operate in WVO? They generally have a small hole in them which allows a trickle of cooling fluid to pass until heat causes them to open fully, perhaps this hole would need to be opened up a bit.

I did think about using the exhaust heat, much as suggested by Glort but I am thinking of using it instead to heat the sump oil to drive off the condensation which occurs during short runs. I`ll probably have to add a secondary sump to get it to work right.

Love the idea of a geared pump for aeration/drying I`m thinking automotive oil pump, I might even be able to drive it off one end of the camshaft with a little modification.

That Rumely is a work of art, shame the operator has to nearly kill himself to start the bugger. 10" piston with a 12" stroke sounds dangerous, wonder what the compression ratio would be to run it on Kero? I guess you would probably have to start it on something more volatile.

mike90045

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 06:13:24 AM »
...
I can't see why running veg as a coolant would have anything wrong with it. ...

Unless you get a leaky head gasket, and coolant (oil / fuel) gets into the cylinder and you get a runaway engine

i guess most of the time, pressure will leak out of the cylinder, but I've seen engines ruined by coolant getting into the cylinder

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 06:30:45 AM »
Thanks Mike, I hadn`t thought about that. I wasn`t thinking of having a pressurised cooling system so there is no reason to suspect that the head gasket would leak. I suspect that it wouldn`t happen in a catastrophic fashion but more likely a gradual deterioration which would be apparent as smoke in the exhaust fumes. I could modify the air intake to include a gate valve to shut off the air supply.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 09:08:05 AM »
Tranks Glort, I was thinking of using a floating rubber bung out of a Davey pump on top of my oil barrel, should keep the moisture out as long as I don

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 09:13:00 AM »
Sorry Glort don`t know what happened there, some how managed to post half way through typing. What I was trying to say was that a flap valve on top of my oil tank should prevent ingress of water provided it doesn`t cause a vacuum and crush the tank as it cools. Maybe a pressure relief valve would be the go.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 10:59:40 AM »
Hey Glort, I had a mate years ago, who managed a glass bottle plant that supplied bottles for just about everything. He told me that most of these companies charge more for the bottles than the do for the contents, so I`m not at all surprised at the quality of some plastic containers, dumping them in landfill should be against the law. Every time I go to the supermarket I get $100 dollars of groceries in $50 dollars of packaging that I then have to pay the local council to take away and recycle/bury.

The recent embargo on China importing our waste products is going to leave a mountain of useful containers that no one wants, The idea of recycling these as storage for recycled fuel is a no brainer, no doubt some jobs worth will try to outlaw it on the grounds that it is a health hazard or a danger to the environment.

Looking forward to the revolution/collapse of global economy, then we can string up all of these over paid useless buggers and get on with life.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 12:17:34 PM »
hey Glort what`s with the fair trial BS? just string them up. They haven`t given any of us a fair go why should we give them one?

With you on all sorts of packaging, spent sometime fitting kitchens, I would spend a whole day unpacking s*it and fill a whole skip with polystyrene and cardboard before I got to fit anything.

I did see a post about dissolving polystyrene in biodiesel and using as fuel, not sure how good that would be for an engine or the environment but probably better than chucking it in landfill.

Interestingly there has been some talk of new microbes that can digest plastics, trouble is they consume the hydrocarbons and excrete CO2 and chlorine gas, might be time to by some gas masks.

Willw

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 12:27:12 AM »
Very interesting thread here.
Daily driver '97 GMC W4 tipper on WVO/Kerosene mix.
6/1 clone standby generator.
Too many projects.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 03:05:55 AM »
I wasn`t actually thinking of running poly as it wouldn`t dissolve in WVO unless it was mixed with some other hydro carbon. Might be very funny if it did, imagine all the drunks in Manly on a weekend buying potions of fried food in polystyrene packaging only to have it dissolve in their hands. Probably wouln

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 03:22:24 AM »
I`ve done it again, managed to post half way through typing.
I was trying to say that if the packaging did dissolve in vegetable oil it probably wouldn`t make that much difference as most of the food these drunk fellows buy ends up on the floor anyhow.

I`m definitely going to run water injection, I`m thinking along the lines of using an old carburettor jet mounted on the inlet manifold. If I could get the venturie effect to work properly it would only inject water when running. No danger of a cylinder full of water.

mike90045

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 04:37:06 AM »
....I`m definitely going to run water injection, I`m thinking along the lines of using an old carburettor jet mounted on the inlet manifold. If I could get the venturie effect to work properly it would only inject water when running. No danger of a cylinder full of water.   

Use a plumbing U bend, so the intake air sucks the water up into the intake.   Or electrical conduit or something to make the bend, other than steel elbows and nipples

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS setup to make it`s own fuel
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 08:33:20 AM »
A question for Glort, how hot do I need to get WVO for the dissolved water to evaporate away? There is little point in running an engine that produces more fuel than it consumes unless you have another used for it. I am therefore thinking of running a setup with a 25ltr fuel tank that purifies 25ltr of fuel. The problem with this is that the 25ltr of coolant will soon become over temperature.
I have concluded that the pump that aerates the WVO should have a thermostat valve after it which would divert extra heat to some sort of oil cooler. I believe that regular thermostats tend to open at around 80 degrees centigrade, would that be a high enough temperature to dry WVO?

I have a cunning plan to mount this engine on a trailer so I could take it to a show or two but I also want it to produce 3 phase for the workshop. I am thinking of making a trailer out of 100mm box section which could be oil filled and provide the extra cooling required. For instance a 2m long trailer with four cross members 1m long would contain approximately 100lrs of oil and have a massive surface area which should prevent overheating on long runs. I could drive the generator head off one flywheel and the WVO circulation pump off the other. I believe I could even build a removable top for this trailer, which would allow me to show it but use it at home without having to build it in a shed. I could  mount a hydraulic ram on each corner of the trailer to jack it up and level it.

I`m probably mad, any thoughts please.
Bob