Author Topic: Advice on generator type  (Read 6009 times)

guest23837

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Advice on generator type
« on: February 18, 2018, 10:56:06 AM »
Hi Guys
I have the injector sorted or will have this week thanks to listard-jp2, so the next step is what sort of generator to make with the SL1. I talked about it with my brother he thinks 750 RPM and either a Lucas 12v or a Daf 24v alternator, a battery or batteries and a pure sine wave inverter. This will sound good and is relatively expensive. My idea is to butcher a petrol generator add a second bearing and a pulley driven by a cogged belt on the flywheel at 1500 RPM. Cheap, relatively easy and 230 v off the generator. Any ideas/suggestions welcome, thanks

dieselgman

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 02:57:32 PM »
For a very light horsepower engine of this type your best bet is to simply charge batteries (24volt preferred) and use your inverter for AC loads. You give up power to waste by going through multiple voltage conversions.

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guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 09:00:08 PM »
For a very light horsepower engine of this type your best bet is to simply charge batteries (24volt preferred) and use your inverter for AC loads. You give up power to waste by going through multiple voltage conversions.

dieselgman

"give up power to waste" ? Could you explain a bit I'm not great on electrics? If I went 24v alternator, 750RPM on the engine and 2250RPM on the alternator would that be sufficient?

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 10:52:03 PM »

Really depends on what you want to do with this and if it is a practical or fun application.
It the recycled single bearing the first thing that come to mind is they are going to be 3000-3600 Rpm. Is the sl1 up to that at load?  I thinkit will be pushing it. A lot!

I have built a number of alternator / inverter generators and like doing them for MY needs.  There are 2 alts hanging off the 6/1 right now for this very reason. I have done both petrol and Diesel engines setups. The thing I like about them is I can back them off for low loads and conversely get more power out of them than I could with a normal genny by drawing on the batteries for a short time anyway.

I was running a load of computers out in the field, literally, and the use was variable. Sometimes I'd only need a few then later on I'd need them all and be running other gear as well.  With the alternator/ battery/ inverter setup I could run the engine at virtually a tick over a lot of the day and then later when we got busy it could be sped up and even if we were pulling more than the engine could do, the batterys would supply the extra power for the over sized inverter to get us through.  Even if the shortfall is 20A, you still get a good run time at the higher output because it's only the gap the batteries have to make up not the whole amount of power.

Given you are only playing with 3.6Hp which is smaller than anything I have used ( 5hp and up) I think this would be the best way for you.
The engine/ alt/ batt/ inverter setups are not light or compact but if it's mainly for fun, you get the best bang for you buck playing with it all!  :0)

I used the Mitsubishi enclosed twin fan alts because I can get any amount I want for nothing. That said I have Tried HARD to blow them up and never have.  Run them grossly overloaded for hours at a time, run them direct with no battery for hours... all the things they tell you will kill them and never have.  The enclosed twin fan design is great because there is nothing flying round to take out fingers etc other than the belt and the thy have a fan for the electronics and another for the coil  which is probably why they are so resistant to burning out.  Sure they get hot when you are trying to suck 120A out of an 80A alt but the don't seem t fail which is the good bit.

I do have a regular 24V Bosch I used and I did kill that pretty quick unfortunately. I have also run 12V Bosch and they have been fine.  If you want the grandaddy of alts, Get a leece Nevile and an external charge controller.
You can then have 12, 24, 36 or 48V at the turn of a knob.  Controllers are about $150 which isn't bad at all, alts start exy and go up but if you know someone who works where they service trucks, You might get lucky especially if you are going to use an external controller and the inbuilt reg is fried.

You can add lots of gauges to a setup like this to add to the fun.  I bought a hall effect tach the other day, you can get AC and DC power meters which show the volts, amps, watts and total KW consumed, electronic temp and oil pressure gauges as well.  Good fun to put modern gauges on an old style engine.

My plan was to run the engine at 1500 RPM and have a half flywheel size pulley on the generator. My needs are 3 eleven watt energy bulbs and a television so nothing too serious. The portable generator also has a 12v outlet so I could run a car spot lamp to light up the yard. Aesthetics don't matter too much to me so the single bearing alternator would have the engine crankcase bolted on as a bearing support with a sealed bearing and the cut off remains of the crankshaft with a pulley attached to drive it. My brothers idea is probably neater but he has something I don't have - money. With our Scottish ancestry he isn't keen on parting with it either! What are the Mitsubishi alternators used for? Wouldn't I need batteries and a regulator or similar ??

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 08:45:32 AM »
Hi Glort
Lots to think about there. I live in Ireland so everything you want to buy is roughly New York prices. Part of doing this is nostalgia, I grew up in Northern Ireland, it was, pretty much, the last part of the UK to get rural electrification so there were plenty of Lister CS engines chugging away powering a few lights and a TV. I remember the sounds as I walked country roads at night. I have a Yanmar generator that  starts easily and generates plenty of power so I have no need for to build a generator but I want to! The power supply is quite stable here and power cuts are rare and only last a few hours. The last time the power went as I was driving up the country road I live on, nobody was showing any lights. I talked to a couple of neighbours and they have oil heating and are non smokers so not even a lighter or matches to spark up a candle.  I doubt there's enough sun here to make solar an option. Some people have solar panels for water heating and some have PV panels but they'seem to be a poor return on the investment. Now if you could power things with rain Ireland would be off-grid everywhere. The generator I was planning on using was started with the oil drained so I'm pretty sure it's the engine that has died however I could buy this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MeccAlte-s16w-90-2-generator-alternator/192452838298?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 and it would still be a cheap generator. You're right I don't know a whole lot about electricity!

mikenash

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 08:54:35 AM »
Hey Johndoh

That's probably a good generator - and excuse me for pointing this out if you have already grasped it - but it's a single-bearing unit which is designed to use the crank bearings of the motor it is attached to as another bearing at the "flange" end. 

While it can be modified to operate as an "open-drive" unit with a shaft and pulleys etc - it's quite a bit of work and I'm not sure how durable conversions like that are long-term either

IMHO that would be why it is cheap?

Just my $0.02 worth.  Cheers

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 10:08:53 AM »
Hey Johndoh

That's probably a good generator - and excuse me for pointing this out if you have already grasped it - but it's a single-bearing unit which is designed to use the crank bearings of the motor it is attached to as another bearing at the "flange" end. 

While it can be modified to operate as an "open-drive" unit with a shaft and pulleys etc - it's quite a bit of work and I'm not sure how durable conversions like that are long-term either

IMHO that would be why it is cheap?

Just my $0.02 worth.  Cheers
The generator will be free so thats not a problem. I plan on using the side casing the alternator is bolted to as a bearing support and simply cut the crankshaft off and use the stub as a carrier for a pulley

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 10:19:52 AM »
Glort thats very interesting I'm not very good with electrics so I'd probably need a book or wiring diagram. I had a quick look online and small ish induction motors are very expensive in Ireland so no surprise there then! If I were going down that route I'd have to look to the UK again

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 01:18:34 PM »

I frequently get alloyed because things I want always seem to be in another city.
Not being able to get what you want in the whole country is another thing especially when it's too big and heavy for normal post. Heavy freight gets real expensive.

I had an old engine and generator I was going to do the same thing with. Cut the crank as close to the counterweight as I could and use the engine casing as the end support.

Like a lot of other projects I had been sitting on for years, it all simply went to scrap when I moved.  Don't miss it but I still bought way too much crap with me I need to shift.

I'm not giving up on this idea according to my little bit of research the motor will produce pure sine wave power. I will have to change the governor springs and speeder spring to get the revs up a bit. I will need to calculate the correct size of pulley these things I can do. The wiring, resistors, capacitors  etc would need to be explained to me probably twice. I like the motor idea it would look more in keeping. Are there books I could buy? It's hard to research stuff on the internet too many opinions, conflicting information etc

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 09:38:55 PM »
Thank you very much Glort your knowledge and assistance will be much appreciated. Ireland has the same voltage as the UK 240v. My injector has been repaired today however due to Meath Co Council's pothole ignoring strategy I had to get the car tracked and buy two front tyres. The motor will have to wait for a fortnight or so. They guy that fixed the injector seems to have drilled it out and pressed a small pipe with a barb on it with a 4mm tube attached. A bit of brake pipe in the other end and I have leakoff! I will message you re motor generator. Many thanks Paul

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 11:47:52 AM »
50 kw would probably be more than the little Lister could handle! They guy that changed my tyres was telling me he has a 20kw PTO alternator directly coupled to a VW 1.9 IDI non turbo engine. He said it will run on anything he's using paraffin mixed with used engine oil. It's not governed but 20kw shouldn't need much anyway governor. Interesting

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2018, 12:09:49 PM »

I tried going on the Irish Ebay to see what I could find. Don't know if I was on the right site (.ie) but there was NOTHING there. I don't know if it was picking up my location but I got so much from the UK and Oz.  Can't see how there could not be 3 phase motors for sale in the whole country.  they would be used in farming alone so must be around.

There were a few cheap in the UK but I have no idea if that is a viable option to bring them over. Also searched for caps but couldn't find anything there either.
Best you have a look and link anything you find and I can tell you if it's suitable or not and you can judge the price for yourself.

There was a very nice 50Kw unit for 500 quid but you may need a slightly larger motor than what you have for that.
Would be nice on my OM 617 Merc motor though!  :0)



 Very Little available in Ireland, If you add a northern Ireland postcode say BT2 8HQ which is Ulster Television in Belfast a lot of them won't actually post from the UK mainland to northern Ireland. I'm back looking at this my keyboard skills are limited!

[url][https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MeccAlte-s16w-90-2-generator-alternator/192452838298?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649/url]
 

dieselspanner

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2018, 05:15:51 PM »
Look at 'Starfire's' early posts on here, lots about home brewed charging systems using car / truck alternators.

The problem with electric is storing it, that's where the £200 petrol genny comes into it's own for occasional use, it's self regulating and provided you turn off the fuel and run the carb dry (so it doesn't gum up as the fuel replenishes the level in the float chamber) the're great.

In you shoes I'd go down the car alternator route, it's simple, the alt's come with there own regulators ect. and are easily replaced.

It's a bit of a pain having a battery to look after, a run very week or two would be the way ahead, but that and a small inverter is all you'll need.

And it'll probably work out cheaper.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 07:27:10 PM »
Look at 'Starfire's' early posts on here, lots about home brewed charging systems using car / truck alternators.

The problem with electric is storing it, that's where the £200 petrol genny comes into it's own for occasional use, it's self regulating and provided you turn off the fuel and run the carb dry (so it doesn't gum up as the fuel replenishes the level in the float chamber) the're great.

In you shoes I'd go down the car alternator route, it's simple, the alt's come with there own regulators ect. and are easily replaced.

It's a bit of a pain having a battery to look after, a run very week or two would be the way ahead, but that and a small inverter is all you'll need.

And it'll probably work out cheaper.

Cheers Stef

12 or 24 volt?

guest23837

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Re: Advice on generator type
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 09:07:39 PM »
Thanks for that Glort. I'm back with the Mitsubishi alternator again! I assume I don't need a particularly good battery? It's the alternator providing the power so maybe 1500 watt inverter? The shed is 30 feet from the house would there be much of a drop over that? Finally on this section of questions would a cogged belt on the flywheel be the way to go? Thanks again even if I don't do anything with the engine I know loads more than when I started. The Mitsubishi seems to have a twin pulley I like the look of that!