Author Topic: Governor weights out... need more weight ?  (Read 2187 times)

32 coupe

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Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« on: January 27, 2018, 08:15:54 PM »
Governor weights removed.

They weigh 9.7 ounces each.

Everyone has suggested a set with more weight.

Do I need more pics to get an idea of size ?

They are for  a 25/2 rated at 1000 rpms I am running at 720 rpms or so and will not
pull above 4kw.

When I took it apart I did not see any binding or rough spots. Still looks new inside with
normal "run in" on running surfaces.

The second cylinder injector lobe is well oiled. Looks like the "chamber" holds oil right up
to the drain hole. I usually oil the injector lifter before every run so I don't know if the oil is run off
from that or there is enough splash through the drain hole for oiling. Never.the less I.just wanted
to point out it seems to be well  lubed on this engine.

Check out that casting.. Must be made in Germany. Pre war.



« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 08:35:35 PM by 32 coupe »
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
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ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2018, 09:00:09 PM »
I hate Indian Nazis.
Just weighed one of the weights off my CS6/1 they come in at 13 1/2 ounces.

BruceM

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2018, 09:21:37 PM »
Wikipedia: "The swastika (as a character 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious icon used in the Indian subcontinent, East Asia and Southeast Asia, where it has been and remains a sacred symbol of spiritual principles in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.[1][2][3][4] In the Western world, it was historically a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck,[5] but in the 1930s, it became the main feature of Nazi symbolism as an emblem of Aryan race identity, and as a result, it has become stigmatized in the West by association with ideas of racism, hatred, and mass murder.[5][6]

The swastika is an icon widely found in human history and the modern world.[4][7] It is alternatively known in various European languages as the Hakenkreuz, gammadion, cross cramponnée, croix gammée, fylfot, or tetraskelion, and in Japan as the Manji. A swastika generally takes the form of a rotationally symmetrical arrangement (a wheel) with four equally spaced legs of identical length each bent at 90 degrees in a uniform direction to create a pattern akin to a four-armed spiral.[8][9] It is found in the archeological remains of the Indus Valley Civilization and Mesopotamia, as well as in early Byzantine and Christian artwork.[4][7]"

ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2018, 09:33:33 PM »
Wow. few things surprise me as much as my own ignorance.

glort

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2018, 11:26:55 PM »
Wow. few things surprise me as much as my own ignorance.

Must be nice to be educated and have a worldly knowledge of things.
Certainly wish I knew a lot more.
Then again, some of the most educated people I know are also the most ( frighteningly) lacking in common sense and hands on ability.

Maybe being ignorant but practical isn't such a bad thing after all.  ;D

ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 12:47:41 AM »
Never thought of ignorance as a virtue. Intelligence is very over rated, I have a brother with a degree whose car regularly breaks down because he forgets to put petrol in it.

dieselgman

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 04:22:28 AM »
Practical common sense is much preferable to book knowledge... However, a balance of both can produce wisdom and great success.

dieselgman
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ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 05:47:15 AM »
Intelligence is defined as the ability to learn from ones own mistakes, wisdom is the ability to learn from the mistakes of others.

No wisdom where I`m concerned, still making the same stupid mistakes as usual.

Bob


ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 06:45:16 AM »
Hi 32coupe. I am not sure if my logic will stand up to scrutiny but the designed increase in RPM from 650 to 1000 is an increase of nearly 54%. While a decrease in governor weight from 13.5oz to 9.7oz is a decrease of only around 28%.

If you only intend to run this a around 720 RPM I would suggest 13.5oz multiplied by 650 and divided by 720 gives a correct weight of 12.2oz.

I would be tempted to get a set of 6/1 weights and grind 1.3oz off each and see how she goes, alternatively someone might be able weigh a set of 8/1 weights they would probably be pretty close to what you need.

Bob

listard-jp2

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 08:12:21 AM »
Check out that casting.. Must be made in Germany. Pre war.

That would be a Swatiska brand item (from one of the more obscure Indian manufacturers), seen it myself on packaging for certain Lister CS component parts.

starfire

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 08:31:29 AM »
Centrifugal forces are  a nonlinear,function ie, if you double the RPM, you quad triple the force. Therefore the weights will  require heavying , then the spring tension will adequately deal to the rest.
There are calculators on the web to deal with this, type in your existing weights and RPM you have now, then find the weights to give the same force at the new lower  RPMs.
Here is one

http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1271292951
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:43:30 AM by starfire »

ajaffa1

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2018, 11:56:30 AM »
The formula for this is Force=mass multiplied by velocity squared divided by radius. The problem with this is that the radius varies as the governor weights get thrown out by centrifugal force. So yes it is a non linear progression but I am not convinced that these calculator programs will be totally accurate. Starfire is probably right and they will get you very close to where you need to be. I`d love to know how much that differs from my cigarette packet calculation.

Bob

starfire

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2018, 12:05:22 PM »
Its easy to overthink this. The weights can be "near enough" and will work well. Even the old weights will work with a lighter spring, heavier weights give better speed regulation as they are more sensitive to speed variation. All force is a logarithmic function, doubling the speed of a vehicle for example takes 4 times the power. ... the nonlinearity has little to do with weight position.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 12:26:07 AM by starfire »

EdDee

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Re: Governor weights out... need more weight ?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2018, 10:02:33 AM »
Hey Guys...

My cribbed definition of... "Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit....Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad!"

Don't overthink the governor weight issue.... While heavier weights will give slightly better regulation of speed, this is really only really due to the force exerted by them being in a greater ratio to the frictional forces to move the rack and linkages - heavier weights mean heavier balance spring, lighter weights mean lighter balance spring... Unless I am missing something of course, which is entirely likely.... But, that being said, I did manage to find the right spring tension and length without having to mess around with governor weight... What I did need to do, was clean up all mating surfaces and pivot points to stop binding and sticking over the entire travel length... Not only does the "strength of pull" of the spring make a difference, but the number of coils/length make a big difference too... Anybody wanting me to explain this a bit better, let me know here and I will try, albeit in my twisted illogical weird manner....

Cheers
Ed
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