Author Topic: more blasphemous solar . . .  (Read 5699 times)

mikenash

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more blasphemous solar . . .
« on: December 12, 2017, 07:05:53 AM »
Okey-dokey

it doesn't get any simpler than this . . . .

(there's an old SciFi novel, set way in the future, in which a basic engineering principle is that, in order to ensure across-the-aeons longevity "no machine should have any moving parts"

Here we are then

This is the "solar" part of the solar shower

The black panel is kinda 1600 x 1400 (maybe four foot X five foot)

It's propped up on a post so it's easy to re-orient it for morning or afternoon sun or to shuffle it around when mowing the grass

Pressurised water goes in one end and comes out the other - that other end is attached to a valve in the shower cubicle that feeds it into the shower head (think of it as a second hot tap)

It doesn't store heat or thermosiphon so it doesn't matter which end is "in" or "out" or what the orientation is

The piping is 50 metres of 20mm (3/4") black low-density "alkathene".  It's held onto the panel by a squillion cable ties

Ten minutes of clear sunshine makes warm/hot water.  Fifteen minutes makes too-hot-to-shower water

If you're "on holiday" as I am when I'm up there you can kinda have a shower whenever the water's hot . . .

It provides enough water at perfect shower heat to have a good scrub-up, wash your hair and just stand there for a bit

If the sun is really hot or has been shining for quite a while then the water is too hot.  Open the cold tap in the shower a bit

There is no emergency over-pressure valving or pressure relief valves or any similar device of any kind

There's just some plastic hosepipe, some sunshine, a hot tap, a cold tap and a shower head

This one has only done a couple of summers

The one I had at the last place did about ten

In theory I guess there are all sorts of things "wrong" with it. Can it be that simple?

It works extra well and cost about $50

LowGear

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 06:14:15 PM »
Interesting.  Simple is one of my favorite concepts as in "Great engineering is simple."  And it encourages quitting while the sun is still above the horizon.  What part of the planet are you located? 

How tricky would it be to couple this to your hot water heater / tank?  When it's hot it's hot and when it's not don't low level pump it to your tank.

I see $50+ of tubing.  $50+ of fittings.  The back board is?  OK, I'm a latent bookkeeper. 
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BruceM

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 09:09:21 PM »
Asphalt and tar paper are often used for an absorber in this type of direct solar coiled tube water heaters in Mexico. 

The downside of plastic tubes with hot water (or cold to a lesser degree) is leaching of plasticizers into the water; even more problematic than direct absorption from the skin contact is breathing it in with water vapor during the shower as well. 

HDPE is likely the lesser of evils, but from what I've read it depends entirely on additives used; no telling what is in black irrigation tubing to resist UV so well.  Testing of endocrine mimicking compounds in plastics is still only in the hands of a few private companies here in the US.  Phalates are only one group, with many others having been identified as equally estrogenic, or having other endocrine impacts.

Maddening that virtually no useful  information is available in order to make an informed plastic material selection choice.  Likely just a result of incompetence but suspicious given how long this issue has been known, as well as the known 50% reduction in male sperm counts, and 1 of 5 breast, uterine, testicular, prostate cancer rates as well as increase in thyroid disease.



starfire

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 09:18:57 PM »
Interesting Bruce.
I recently read that the predominance of faggotry occurred because and since  of the introduction of plastic, specially cups, food wrap and food storage. The chemicals leach into the food, and mimic hormones in some humans. That may explain why the bum bandit population is  increasing exponentially....
Keep your backs to the wall......

mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 12:38:45 AM »
Interesting.  Simple is one of my favorite concepts as in "Great engineering is simple."  And it encourages quitting while the sun is still above the horizon.  What part of the planet are you located? 

How tricky would it be to couple this to your hot water heater / tank?  When it's hot it's hot and when it's not don't low level pump it to your tank.

I see $50+ of tubing.  $50+ of fittings.  The back board is?  OK, I'm a latent bookkeeper.

Yeah but . . . .I work in the irrigation/engineering industry - cost of fittings, zilch, cost of backing plate (part of an old base off a feed-wagon trailer) zilch, cost of pipe "cost" price, cost of timber, nails, cable ties zilch . . .

I'm in New Zealand and that unit is in a province called the Bay of Plenty near a town called Whakatane - which has the most sunshine hours of anywhere in the country (which Is why I have a "retirement scheme" place up there.  It's full of accountants and lawyers as they make enough money to retire in the sunshine . . .

Cheers

mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 12:41:34 AM »
Interesting.  Simple is one of my favorite concepts as in "Great engineering is simple."  And it encourages quitting while the sun is still above the horizon.  What part of the planet are you located? 

How tricky would it be to couple this to your hot water heater / tank?  When it's hot it's hot and when it's not don't low level pump it to your tank.

I see $50+ of tubing.  $50+ of fittings.  The back board is?  OK, I'm a latent bookkeeper.

Wouldn't take much to couple to the HWC with a wee pump, BUT I have a wetback to heat the cylinder when the sun isn't shining and only myself to please (mostly) when I'm up there; and, since I work with pumps all the time, it pleases me not to have any - my water is supplied at a couple of bar free, from a spring up the hill "great plumbing is simple" too lol

BruceM

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 04:20:01 AM »
You get the prize for best, simplest water system, MikeN-  spring fed, 30 psi and direct coil heater with the climate to suit.  Nary a pump in sight.  I can appreciate that!


mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 06:40:13 AM »
We may be missing the point that "simple" is both the objective and the enjoyment here, Glort

I'm sceptical that showering under warm water from a plastic pipe once or twice a week is gonna jeapordise my health

Bacon and eggs too often will threaten my health, as will too much coffee, too much Diet Coke, too many pepper steak pies . . . not to mention liquorice allsorts . . . but warm water will not be the end of me :)

mike90045

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 06:52:17 AM »
Plastic tube
Hot water 40 - 70C  Or say you forgot and left it charged all day

What is the tube burst pressure at 70C ?  Will your water system blow the tube if you forget to turn it off ?

I like the "build it out of copper tube" idea. instead of the plastic tube..

mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 08:17:34 AM »
I dunno, Mike.  I doubt it would hit 70 degrees but who knows? 

I have had a similar system before and left it "charged" all the time at maybe three or four bar?  But that was in a less sunny area.

As I'm only up there from time to time I turn off the water "main" when I leave.  I'll be there for a week or ten days over Xmas and will see what it does then

I wouldn't build one from copper, I'd just buy a second-hand copper collector - they are on TradeMe all the time

I wasn't offering this as a serious alternative to a proper system of any kind - more as an observation on a simple, cheap-and-dirty exploitation of all that solar energy.  The whole thing cost bugger-all and took about two hours to build, see?

Cheers

AdeV

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 04:58:07 PM »
I'm with Glort etc. on this, I'd make one out of copper. Not necessarily for any health benefits (because I'd probably end up using lead solder to join the pipes...), or any other reason than I enjoy messing about with metal :)

However, I don't have any off-grid hidey-holes where I could usefully install my Lister generator, the 100W solar panel I bought to mess around with, or where I'd have a good excuse to build a copper-pipe solar shower (or even a black plastic one). I guess that should be next on the list..... maybe somewhere a bit sunnier than the UK too...
Cheers!
Ade.
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mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 05:13:26 PM »
I do remember a mid-summer visit to Windsor Castle - the photographs show us layered in scarves and raincoats with umbrellas turned inside out by the wind and the hood of my jacket filling up with rainwater.  My English companion commented "There's not enough sunshine in England to harm a child . . . "

AdeV

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 05:44:55 PM »
You'd think, given the amount of rain we generally get in a year, that we'd have more hydro power....

Something that's always confused Australians is why we never schedule BBQs... until they visit, that is. THEN they get it straight away! We love a nice BBQ, but it's generally something that's planned no more than a couple of hours in advance... and if we do get a decent hot sunny spell, it will end at any moment in thunderstorms.

With this in mind, you can begin to understand why, when the British were building an empire, we pretty much headed straight for the equator and stayed there!
Cheers!
Ade.
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LowGear

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 05:58:38 PM »
I'm back with mikenash.  Keep It Simple - Smartly.  The mission is to have cheap nicely warmed water available for a shower or good hand washing and not to do a couple loads of clothes or a midnight shower.  Why do we humans always search for a more complicated answer to a simple need?

The dangerous vapors are everywhere.  I'm actually a bit concerned about the chlorine in our county water whilst I'm showering.  It helps me committed to the GI shower concept.  Get wet with warmish water and turn it off; lather up; rinse off with warmish water and repeat as long as the water lasts or you remember you started the barbie before getting into the shower to clean it up for company later in the evening.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 06:03:02 AM by LowGear »
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mikenash

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Re: more blasphemous solar . . .
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 02:35:58 AM »
Mate, I don't want to annoy Ade - but I have to say I kinda just skimmed past most of this

I guess that's why I'm just a poor engineer who has to heat his shower water in some old plastic piping . . .

Cheers