Author Topic: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab  (Read 35887 times)

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2017, 09:30:13 PM »
Vee that crack viciously with an angle  grinder, LOTS of heat and bronze it.
Thanks Starfire, one of my neighbours is a blacksmith. I`ll be paying him a visit later. Not sure how I`m going to lift that crankcase into the back of the car.

I like Dieselgmans suggestion to drill a relief hole at the top of the crack to stop it spreading, I`m thinking 1/8" hole that can easily be filled with bronze.

The Gunk in the crankcase and etc. dissolves well in a mixture of diggers degreaser and caustic soda. Used it before, nasty stuff that will burn the skin off you and even dissolve finger nails. Take precautions and don`t get a hole in your rubber gloves!
One great advantage of caustic soda is that it dissolves paint as well as grease.

Thankfully that is not another crack, just a bad casting mark that has been very badly fettled. Think they probably had to fire the apprentice.

I`m in two minds about brass serial number plate, should I remove it before painting or just mask it and paint round it?


AdeV

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2017, 09:34:58 PM »
... Not sure how I`m going to lift that crankcase into the back of the car.

...

I`m in two minds about brass serial number plate, should I remove it before painting or just mask it and paint round it?

How to get it in the car? One inch at a time....  :laugh:  Obviously, the answer will depend, to a degree, on what equipment you have available, how strong you are etc. I'd be tempted to make a ramp up to your tailgate (assuming this is an estate/hatch car, not a saloon!), and slide/walk it up. The crankcase, sans all the mechanical bits, shouldn't be too bad to manhandle about. If you're worried about sliding, nail a few 1/2" battens across your ramp to rest the engine on every couple of feet.

Re the brass plate; it's easy enough to mask off,  if the rivets are in good condition, that's what I'd do.
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2017, 09:41:04 PM »
Thanks Basewindow, developing a good collection of dirty clothing and matching dirty looks from the wife.
Looking forward to seeing the Bamford rebuild. I note that you own a 1962 Fordson Dexta. I used to drive one of those on a farm when I was a kid. Had to start it on petrol before swapping over to Kero, if my memory serves me right.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2017, 09:47:13 PM »
Thanks AdeV, I`ve got a block and tackle but I`m worried about getting enough swing on it to lower the crankcase into the back of the wife`s 4x4. Don`t want to chip the paint she`d kill me.
Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2017, 10:01:39 PM »
Just remembered an old trick we used to use in the Air Force for repairing cracked cast iron cylinder heads. Drill out the crack, tap a thread into the hole, screw in a suitable bolt. Braze the whole lot in place and grind back. Used to work ok in a bind. Not sure how I would apply this to a 2" crack, maybe one at either end and one in the middle would increase surface are for bronze to hold to. Any thoughts?
Bob

basewindow

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2017, 10:34:49 PM »
Its a diesel super dexta (not much different from the earlier dexta, slightly more hp and different nose cone). Purchased it as a wreck from my neightbour and have bought it back to life. Works around the farm now ( not very hard) doing some slashing, grading, and lugging things around. Have a pulley bench saw for it as well but have never used it.

Its not the orginal colours but I like the red bonnet, nose and tank.
1953 CS Lister 3.5hp, 1938? Bamford SD1 3.5hp, 1962 Fordson Super Dexta, 1969 International 434.

AdeV

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2017, 11:32:56 PM »
Just remembered an old trick we used to use in the Air Force for repairing cracked cast iron cylinder heads. Drill out the crack, tap a thread into the hole, screw in a suitable bolt. Braze the whole lot in place and grind back. Used to work ok in a bind. Not sure how I would apply this to a 2" crack, maybe one at either end and one in the middle would increase surface are for bronze to hold to. Any thoughts?

If you've got the patience, you can drill/tap holes all along the crack; say M8 sized for example. grind flat & then drill/tap between the holes, screw in bits of rod, grind back & admire your new crack-free crank case. I'm not sure how easy this would be on the curved section of the casting. Personally, I'd be tempted to drill/tap/screw steel into the end of the crack, then vee it out and braze it. Other than the clamping forces if you bolt the engine down, it's not a structurally significant part of the casting, so it can afford to be a bit less than perfect IMHO.
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

mike90045

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2017, 12:28:39 AM »
Be careful with the caustic around the Brass plate, it will dissolve it as fast as it takes grease off.

I'm with the Blacksmith trip, have him repair the crack, then heat it up, burn the stuff off, and then anneal / slow cool the crankcase.  Cast iron wants a long slow cool down (2 days) for relieving stress, and the local heating from the welding will stress it for sure)

After it's all clean, you can use glyptal paint to seal the inside of the crack and keep all the oil inside.

dieselgman

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2017, 02:42:21 AM »
Nice thing about that crack... it does not pass into the internal (oil holding) section of the crankcase. Any repair to stop it from spreading will likely be just fine.

dieselgman
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vdubnut62

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2017, 03:27:17 PM »
I vote for drill, tap and "stitching" the crack also.   
   On a completely different tangent 'way off topic, (sorry ADD kicking in) is the USA the only place in the world where everyday people drive pickup trucks?  I'm truly curious! I see UTE, Caravan and car, but I am clueless as to why no truck or pickup references, that seems to be a USA thing?  I simply could not live without my pickups, I have two, a Dodge 3500 4x4 diesel  and a Toyota Tundra with a V6.
Ron in TN.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 03:28:49 PM by vdubnut62 »
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dieselgman

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 05:24:28 PM »
I own many trucks and drive a F150 every day. We have a luxury of very low fuel prices here in the US and plenty of utility vehicle choices... the pickup trucks don't get the best mileage but are plentiful and easy to use. I used to own a little Chevy HHR wagon with trailer hitch... worked almost just like a truck but delivered 30mpg when empty. I put on 100,000 miles in that heavy duty service. Fuel price did not jump to where it was anticipated to go, so time for a safer and better tool for the job - FORD makes a good one... many others of equal merit.

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Thob

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2017, 03:17:00 AM »
Around here, there are two types of vehicles - pickups and targets.

I know, I drive a target...
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I'm not afraid to take anything apart.
I am sometimes afraid I'm not going to get it back together.

LowGear

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2017, 11:16:00 AM »
Once you own a pickup it's just very hard to live without one.  The next couple of years should see the introduction of some pretty interesting electric ones.  There'll be the F150s and the Edsels.  I'm hoping for more along the line of the Bollinger B1.

And Thob is correct.  Beat up old F150s just get more respect and road space than the Honda Civics and their sister ships.
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mikenash

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2017, 06:43:41 AM »
Nice thing about that crack... it does not pass into the internal (oil holding) section of the crankcase. Any repair to stop it from spreading will likely be just fine.

dieselgman

FWIW when I have had a crack like that to deal with I think in terms of (a) stopping it spreading further and (b) holding the cracked bits together

If you drill a wee hole (maybe 4 or 5mm) at the end, that should stop the crack creeping?

I have used arc welding with some success if it is done in quite a specific way (have repaired vices this way)

You need the right electrode, probably one with a fair bit of stainless in it, maybe?  Your welding supplies will know

Vee out the crack at the bottom end - maybe not so much at the top

Put a small peening hammer to hand

Use the arc welder to make maybe a 20mm run and peen the crap out of the weld to expand it as it cools.  The short run won't put enough heat into the casting to make it need cooling down? 

Do maybe a couple of runs like that at the foot end of the crack.  If that looks like "enough" grind it smooth and just fill the rest of gthe crack with something and paint.

This process doesn't put enough heat in to matter

Find some old cast scfrap and have a few "plays" and see what I mean

Just a suggestion

Cheers

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2017, 11:33:22 AM »
Hi Folks, haven`t posted for a couple of days, been crook (Oz for sick).Another round of visits to doctors, more expense, more time without work, no closer to a diagnosis. What a crock of sh1t. Got to go for another MRI scan more blood tests & etc.
Symptom: loss of feeling/numbness in hands and fingers shooting pains up my arms.
History: broken neck 12 months ago. Stiffness and pain ever since.
Doctors suggested diagnosis: celiacs disease, poisoning, alcoholism, vitamin deficiency, smoking.
Thank God none of these highly paid individuals service diesel vehicles or the entire Australian transport industry would grind to a halt.
Back to the main topic. Managed to haul my cracked crankcase to a series of engineering shops. Prices varied from $50 to over $200. Further conversation with these welding experts revealed that none of them planned to pre heat the casting, no annealing after welding, no peening of the weld, no facilities for a controlled cooling.
My crankcase is now back home. I have access to oxy-acetylene but no confidence to braze it myself. So I propose to do what I do know how to do, (an engineers solution). Today I ordered a pack of JB weld (very strong epoxy adhesive). I plan to make a 1/2" steel plate that I will fit to the back of the crack. I will grind and shape it to be as close a fit to the back of the cracked area as possible. I will drill a hole in each corner. I will then clamp it in place and drill through it into the crank case. I will tap the holes in the crankcase. I intend to score the steel plate and crankcase before applying JB weld and bolting. The following day, when everything has hardened, I will V-out the front of the crack and fill with JB weld.
This is not a perfect solution but requires no heat and should provide a lasting & invisible repair. I will post photos as I go.
Thank you Mikenash and Dieselgman, both of you suggested drilling a relief hole at the end of the crack to stop it spreading. I will be taking your good advice before proceeding with my repair.

I`m not sure how we got off Listers and onto the subject of pickup trucks but for what it`s worth, in Australia all pick up trucks are called utes. They come in all sizes and shapes and are all now made overseas mostly the USA, Taiwan and Japan.
Sadly the government felt that it was not economically viable to support a local motor vehicle industry here. So we now have to import all our vehicles and provide welfare to thousands of skilled people and their families. Way to go! The rich must get richer and the workers can go f*ck themselves. Who are the rich going to sell their products to when no one has a job?

Crook and cranky Bob.