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Author Topic: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke  (Read 3490 times)

davesiegler

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new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« on: November 18, 2017, 03:47:56 PM »
Good day all.
Im new to the forum and to listeroids but not engines and equipment. recently i found a ten year old, never run 10/1. ive taken it all the way down, cleaned and checked specs and clearances,etc.
Today ill put fluids in it and a load and hopefully start it. The engine is extremely hard to crank past the compression stroke by hand and even the electric starter takes a pretty good load, slipping the belt until i brought the belt tension up to what i think is near max for a serp belt. yes im cranking it up to speed then releasing the decompression lever. lol
ive checked the bump clearance and it is in spec i believe @0.085
cranking by hand is like hitting a wall of compression, often kicking back.
this engine does not have the COV.
Any thoughts here or run it. I cant wait to get this online, ive wanted oneof these for some time now.
No powerlines here and my 50 year old K662 light plant is starting to sound  50 years old. Ha

mike90045

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 05:39:30 PM »
Yep.  My 6/1 is tough.

Do you get the "tink" or "creeek" when the injector squirts ?   does it run or not ?

My geared starter can grunt through the compression, if I have it backed all the way so the flywheels have some momentum and a full rotation to get up to speed.

By hand, I have to go many revs (7 or 8) to get RPM up, before I can drop the decompression

davesiegler

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 07:14:26 PM »
i have not started it yet. just got back with diesel fuel. couldnt find nontoxic antifreeze. Boo.

mike90045

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 09:31:34 PM »
OK, you have a job to do first, to get the fuel system primed.

Did you check for sand and clean it out ?

Why do you need non-tox antifreeze, you are not supposed to be drinking it.  Do you use non-toxic diesel or motor oil ?

With freezing temps, you may need to go to a thinner grade of oil, I use delo 15-40

But even without coolant, you can fire it up for 15 sec, and have it run.

You know about the oil points before starting :  (my homemade list)
Oiling before start:  [ starting from top, going down ]

Rocker Arms pivot.   oil hole at the pivot (2)

Rocker Arm Ends : each end, where it contacts the other moving parts
 (pushrod & valve cap) (4)

Valves - Springs & Keepers/caps
 caps at the top of the stem  (2)
 some oil in the big sump at the top of the head, into the deep spring well.
         (some folks use 90w gear lube here)


Fuel Pump:
 Metering shaft (in the middle of the pump that the linkage connects to)
 linkages to governor
 Tappet wells  (access thru flywheel spokes) - fore & aft sumps  couple drops each


Tappets - top side where pushrods reside.
 
Camshaft bushing - next to Ex tappet, unscrew and squirt oil down into it after long idle periods. ( more than 48 hours since last run)  (this oils the camshaft bushing)

Crankcase level:  somewhere between the tips of the castle nuts on the crank, and the middle of the dipper

 >48 hrs since last run, add:
open crankcase door and oil the 2 wells on the connecting rod
open plug far side next to Ex tappet, and dribble 1 tablespoon down center of hole
 (this oils the camshaft bushing)

davesiegler

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 12:10:19 AM »
thanks mike.
the whole engine has been disassembled, cleaned, checked for sand and reassembled with lucas assembly lube. all the points you spoke about are lubed/greased.
i shouldnt have to go thru the injection pump should I? It has never been run. truly never run. not a bit of soot or combustion evidence anywhere.
good point i suppose on the non toxic antifreeze, ive just always used it in my outdoor boiler and the first liquid cooled generator I had.
rotella t4 10-30 with lucas additive is what i bought. its getting cold in maine this time of year.

Hugh Conway

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 01:24:53 AM »
@ Davesiegler
That 10/1 you've got was originally from a dealer in Ontario Canada, John Ferguson. He was associated with George Breckenridge of Utterpower. John sold his business to Jim Calder who now runs it as Just Live Off Grid.
I bought a 6/1 and a PMG from John  (Belleghuan was his brand, it is really a JKSON) several years ago. It is in service mainly charging batteries when the sun does not shine........most of the winter here.
As for your engine being hard to crank through compression, I am imagining you mean once you dis-engage the valve lifter. Assuming no mechanical problems (sounds like you covered your bases) I can tell you that I had and still have the same problem when its cold here (Canada, winter) Spinning it up by hand can result in the compression stopping the turning with the hand crank anyway. I have a starter/generator belted up and usually spin it at least 5 to 7 injector creaks before disengaging the valve lifter......it has always started then. Many times cannot get it started by hand if the temp is around or below freezing.
Nature of the beast! It will loosen up a bit after you get some hours on it, and I bet it cranks lots easier after it is warmed up. Mine sure does.
Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

carlb23

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 10:05:50 AM »
Check the valve clearance you may have it too loose.   Get it spinning real good before disengaging the the decompressor

cujet

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 12:50:50 PM »
Ah, the joys of starting a single cylinder engine with a coffee can sized piston, a 17 to 1 compression ratio and thick oil. I'd carefully look into compression release and exhaust valve adjustment. This can help. In any case, the starter should be able to crank it over fast enough with the CR engaged that, when released, inertia alone is well more than enough to get the engine through a compression stroke.
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

38ac

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 01:51:25 PM »
 Does it kick back? or just not want to go over compression? I have seen those 1000 RPM listeroids with the injection timing advanced so far they would kick back.   Cant tell from the pics but a lot of the 1000 RPM engines also had small diameter flywheels.  When both advanced timing and small flywheels are in the picture starting a 10-1  it aint like starting a 6/1 for sure! You have to realy get them rolling over before you flip them over on compression.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 02:55:09 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

davesiegler

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2017, 11:15:33 PM »
its running nowde
38ac....at the time of the original post the fuel system was still "dry", i just couldnt push or pull it past the comprssion stroke and still cant hand start it.
Im really glad i added the electric start. its starts first comprssion stroke after releasing the lifter.
hugh conway .....thanks for the info on its manufacturer. a google search for "belleghuan" got me near nothing for results.
mike90045 thanks for the prestart checklist.
and thanks for all the other tips everyone else.

mike90045

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2017, 02:00:09 AM »
for priming and bleeding. you can loosen the hi-pressure line at the injector (high point to purge bubbles) and then "rock" the flywheels back and forth about 100 degrees around the Fuel Pump activation (decompressed) and you can get 2 pumps, 1 fwd, 1 backwards as you rock the flywheels back and forth.  When the bubbles stop, tighten the injector line and keep going till you get a good "creak" or "ting" from the injector, then it'll start.
  Should have said that to you earlier.

Hugh Conway

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 12:53:14 AM »
@davesiegler

 The website for your Belleguhan was http://www.woodnstuff.ca/listeroids.html

The site is no longer operative, but here is a link to an archived page.  https://web.archive.org/web/20120219234114/http://www.woodnstuff.ca/listeroids.html
John was a great guy to deal with. Too bad the links found on the home page do not work either.
Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

davesiegler

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Re: new listeroid. super hard to crank thru compression stroke
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 07:41:31 PM »
thanks hugh. :)