Author Topic: Cold starting aid  (Read 5749 times)

dkwflight

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Cold starting aid
« on: July 25, 2006, 12:13:45 AM »
Hi Does any one know any thing about this?

http://www.koldban.com/mainpages/kapower.htm

A capaciter for a electric starter? I have been trying to understand how this would work.
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

GuyFawkes

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 12:40:23 AM »
Hi Does any one know any thing about this?

http://www.koldban.com/mainpages/kapower.htm

A capaciter for a electric starter? I have been trying to understand how this would work.
Dennis


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
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Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

DaveW

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 03:31:34 AM »
A starting battery provides a few hundred amps for maybe 30 seconds to start an engine.  As the temperature drops the engine is harder to turn over and the battery provides less amperage.  A supercap can provide 1 to 2 thousand amps for a few seconds, providing the force needed to overcome the stiction of a cold engine/generator.  So the battery and supercap in parallel complement each other.  But the ultrahigh power density of the supercap is offset by its high cost, price one and you will be backing away slowly and thinking of a second battery for boost starting. On an airplane the reduced weight may well be worth it, but we are dealing mostly with stationary units, an extra hundred pounds or so doesn't mean much.  One arena in alternate energy that shows promise for the supercap is a battery bank and inverter used to start a high current surge motor, like a deep well pump.  Deep cycle batteries are expensive, and tripling or quadrupling your battery bank to start a high current motor can be cost prohibitive.  There a supercap may be just the answer, so long as the inverter will take the strain and the supercap is mounted very close to the inverter with big leads.This can give you a hugh boost to start the motor without sucking down the battery bank so much.

dkwflight

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 08:12:54 AM »
Thanks
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

MoHillbilly

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 03:03:36 AM »
keep this in mind...........a discharged capacitor shows a DEAD SHORT to whatever you hook it up too when it is in a discharged state!  it takes a few milliseconds for the cap to charge, during this time, extreme currents are involved and sparks will fly!

Use a suitable resistior in series with the cap to limit its chage rate and prevent excess current draw. 

A simple 1 farad 12 volt cap will blow holes in the lid of a copenhagen chewin tabbaco can, pretty cool too watch, and do, but not good for equipment....

FYI, thats all...........

kyradawg

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 04:29:20 AM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 02:09:31 AM by kyradawg »

DaveW

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 02:10:57 PM »
MoHillbilly - Thanks for the safety reminder. I use an 11 ohm 1000 watt resistor with a switch and clip leads to pre-charge the cap to the battery bank voltage before hooking the permanent wiring in place. This helps with the vaporized lug problem and the stopped heart when you inadvertently touch a discharged cap to a battery bank.  Also, after disconnecting the setup, it is wise to use the clip leads and resistor to discharge the cap before storage. Sears no longer warrants a 9/16 wrench with such obvious abuse.

kyradawg - Sorry, you leaped way past me. ..slow down which discharge rate?

kyradawg

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 04:25:01 PM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 02:08:36 AM by kyradawg »

DaveW

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2006, 05:49:58 PM »
kyradawg - A resistor will slow the discharge rate of a capacitor, but at a cost.  Part of the energy of the capacitor will be lost as heat in the resistor.  The key is to balance the resistance against the rate of discharge, so that the most gain can be achieved with the least loss of energy.  But in the case of the battery/supercap combination, the relative internal impedances of the two provide a good balance already, so the addition of an external resistance will usually mean overall energy loss, with little gain in rate of discharge.  It can be done, but since the internal impedance of the battery depends on its state of charge, age and temperature the balancing act would be tricky indeed.  And one needs to remember that a shorted battery is nasty, but a shorted supercap is nasty squared.  My 2600 farad supercap can generate over 30,000 amps if only for microseconds when shorted.  This demands respect and caution at all times.  As I mentioned earlier, trying to explain away the end of a wrench turned to a molten blob as normal wear and tear is a tough sell.

DaveW

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Re: Cold starting aid
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2006, 08:10:10 PM »
Sorry - missed it by a decimal or three.  Make that milli instead of micro...