Another build

[38ac]

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[broncodriver99]

Nice! I never get tired of pictures of these things torn down and being put back together properly. Would you mind taking a few pics of the crankshaft and pinion gear? My crank has some issues and am still debating having a pinion gear made and repairing the crank or giving an Indian crank a shot. Just curious about how close the Indian cranks match the originals especially since I have SOM flywheels.

[38ac]

I will get you a pic this evening. The Indian crankshaft is a direct interchange as long as it was made for bushing mains. A TRB crankshaft will NOT interchange unless you also purchase and install Indian made TRB bearing housings and of course the required main bearings and races,   There are more than a few CS Listers around that are running Indian crankshafts.

[38ac]

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[broncodriver99]

Thank You Butch. Those work. Is there a decent radius on the rod journal?

[38ac]

The radius varies with each crankshaft. It is better than the picture appears but if I had a choice in the matter I would have a large one.

[dieselgman]

That pinion can be heated for removal (in a large press), but I have found it to be such a PITA that replacing the entire crank is to be preferred. These pinion gears are NOT indexed, it can be done but frought with issues such as getting slightly off and causing timing issues. Plenty of cranks in stock in Kansas. The radius issue varies as Butch has said, and so does the final polish of the journals... usually best to assume you will have to do final finish work on these parts.

dieselgman

[broncodriver99]

Thanks for the info. I have my old pinion removed. Took a little heat and a homemade puller, I will get a couple of pics of the knurling on the crank next time I am working on it. I added indexing marks before I pulled it so I should be able to get a new one back on fairly close. I have found a couple of stock gears that can be modified to work, just curious if it is worth the effort. Sounds like I would likely have to put some work into an Indian crank anyway so I will give repairing the original crank a shot. I may pick up an Indian crank as a backup.

Sorry about the Hijack Butch.

[38ac]

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[dieselgman]

Old technology vs new technology...

old tech - let the dirt settle out and have the routine maintenance manually clean it out - (or not).
new tech - keep everything in suspension and have it removed along with the routine oil change.

old tech - large bearing surfaces with lots of extra clearance and tolerance for a certain amount of small debris
new tech - fairly tight and somewhat smaller bearing surfaces, sensitive to even fairly small debris

old tech - splash and gravity flow oil delivery to bearings, non-pressurized
new tech - fairly high and constant oil pressure fed to bearings at all times

It is also worth mentioning that a lot of the gritty stuff that Butch so meticulously removes... would usually stay bound up in the bubbles and paint that originally covers it all up anyway.

By the way, I vote for a clean engine by all means... but, the old designs have a lot of extra tolerance built in.

Nice work Butch!!!

dieselgman

[38ac]

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[dieselgman]

I am not aware of anyone giving up any detailed information regarding longevity in third-world applications... I have also witnessed personally the appalling conditions under which some of these machines are expected to operate in the third-world. I have also dismantled Original Equipment Listers that were operating just fine, but had extreme internal wear and slop. If your parts and labor are dirt-cheap, as in the third world, then one might expect the standards to be quite lax. I am a long-time engine builder of the modern automotive flavor... you could never get away with these lax Indian standards in any of the modern engines. Failure would be almost immediate and dramatic in many cases. I am often surprised and impressed at how robust and simple these old Lister machines really are... and just how much it usually takes to make them break down.

dieselgman

[38ac]

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[listard-jp2]

/\/\ An interesting bit of background history how the Indian Clone Lister CS first made an appearance in America.

Because they still have metallurgy issues that cannot be fixed (at a price anyone will pay)  they will never be the full replacement of a CS.

Don't forget about: dimensional errors, insufficient hardening/tempering, and surface finish problems. Some of which are possible to overcome, and some which have to be lived with.

[BruceM]

With virtually no CS machines in the southwestern US I'm still very glad for the Rajkot kit engines and parts, despite the work to make them serviceable for long term use.  Some of the Rajkot mods in the Listeroids I don't mind- like TRB's and splash lube only. I don't think there has EVER been a failure of the TRBs. 

I wouldn't mind the cylinder liner, either, if only they bothered to insure liner protrusion of 3 mils or less.  I appreciate the DES approach of keeping to the original design...better long term parts situation, less variations.

I really wanted a reliable off grid power source that didn't make noise that made me want to eat a bullet.  The kit engine was a lot of work but did fill the job nicely.