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Author Topic: guess what  (Read 6621 times)

George A

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Re: guess what
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2017, 10:54:51 AM »
Starfire, you mentioned a fan............I built my Listeroid into a 2500 watt generator for standby use and it fills that role admirably. I used a radiator from another power unit as it had enough capacity for thermo-siphon, but I also mounted a 110 volt high speed fan behind it. The fan is a larger version of a computer muffin fan and was salvaged from a microwave radio transmitter that was being junked where I worked, in fact I got two....one for a spare. A couple of brackets centered it on the backside of the radiator.

The fan has an ordinary cord/plug and plugs into one of the four outlets I installed on the unit. Very little parasitic drag, but DEFINITELY helps the cooling on long runs as proven in our latest power outage.
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

starfire

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Re: guess what
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 02:13:47 PM »
I have a similar setup on the Petter, using a 12 volt car radiator fan connected to the 12 volt outlet of the alternator. Like yours, the fan neatly comes on automagically only when the engine is running. Another chap on here suggested having temeprature sensors to switch it on and off according to demand, a good idea, but in my case they were off most of the time, so didnt really warrant the extra complication. So, to simplify it, I just put a car ballast resistor in series, the fan just idles along full time. What I may do with this one is to add some way of heating the lubricating oil. These Listers are dirty in the sump, and I reckon its because the oil  never gets hot enough to boil off the contaminants, thereby forming sludge very quickly. Extending the pump outlet oil line to a few turns around the hot exhaust may be all that is needed, I think it would help. But then, Listers in general dont seem to  mind shitty oil, and Ive seen some really bad examples where the oil is the consistency of thick cream with coagulated lumps. an emulsion of oil and water, but the bearings show no signs of distress at all. So, I could  be over thinking it.

32 coupe

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Re: guess what
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2017, 03:49:31 PM »
I don't understand running with the lifter in the lift position ?

Am I missing something ?

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
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dieselspanner

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Re: guess what
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2017, 04:05:30 PM »
Me too!

Well as far as the 12v radiator fan goes.

I've got the rad, complete with the cowling that supports the fan along with the thermostatic switch that mounts in the rad. I begged it out of an LDV van that has been sat on my mates farm for the last 4 years.

I turned it 90 degrees to have it's narrow aspect vertical and the plumbing all ended up in the right place, more or less. it's a really neat installation.

The power is supplied by a 12v transformer that should be driving LED lights, but it seems quite happy sitting in the dog house on top of the alternator. it's wired to one of the phases, when the motor starts.....

I've yet to run it hot enough for the switch to kick in, it may be busted, I've not taken it out to check it yet, I've also fitted a 'bypass' switch and the Lister seems happy with the fan running continually.

I too wondered about Starfire's Lister 'running' with the decompressor 'up', (nice motor by the way) or is it that there's so little friction it takes longer than mine to 'spool down'?

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

starfire

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Re: guess what
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2017, 09:59:29 PM »
I  noticed too on the video that it does seem to run with the lifter up, but, no, it just looks that way. The engine turns very freely is all, and remember theres nothing connected to it yet. The only reason I was using the lifter, the fuel lever on the injector pump is very tight and dont want to force anything  until I check it over.... todays job.

contaucreek

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Re: guess what
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 01:12:53 AM »
I know where there is a 3 1/2 with an original drip can!
L.E.F. Dip #1 Threadstopper Extraordinaire

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: guess what
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2017, 05:31:08 AM »
I have great success with oil heating by using an oil cooler from a boat. http://www.go2marine.com/category/14779/oil-coolers-for-boats.html the link gives a general idea of the type of cooler. I got mine used, maybe fleabay, so don't let those retail prices put you off.
 I put it in the hot water up leg of the thermo-siphon so I selected a cooler with a water connection to match the hose from the Ashmamegh 25/2.
I re-piped the oil system inside the crankcase so the pump discharge pipe went up to the oil cooler (now heater) then thru a spin on oil filter and back into the engine.
I also run a bypass filter, a Frantz toilet paper element directly off the top of the oil pump discharge where you prime the pump. The outlet of this filter feeds a small dribble of oil to the 'dry' cam of the injector pump farthest from the governor.
The engine jacket water heats to about 190 degrees under load, and the oil temp is at least 180 degrees.
I have an attic fan in the garage where my generator is set up. The Radiator air flow is guided by a plywood plenum up to the fan. I control water temp by placing sheet plastic against part of the radiator, the vacuum from the fan holds it in place.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

dieselspanner

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Re: guess what
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2017, 10:01:39 PM »
When I rebuilt my 6/1 with taper roller bearings (to make best use of a well worn crank) I modded the two pipes that fed oil to the main bearings to feed into the open sides of the TRB's.

Butch, 38 AC, pointed out that this wasn't really necessary as there is far more oil slung around the crank case by the dipper than will ever be required, and that Listeroids with TRB's as original equipment have no oil pump anyway.

I've left the pump in to circulate the oil through a spin off filter

Without looking I don't know when the 'pulse' of the oil pump occurs, but might it be feasible to redirect one arm up to squirt on to the bottom of the piston, at BDC, in a similar fashion to some high speed diesels I've worked on?

It wouldn't harm the small end (wrist pin, for those on the other side of English!) bearing, and I doubt the cooling of the piston it's self would be a negative issue, but there would surely be a transfer of heat down to the sump.

The other leg could be lead off to the lonely bearing at the 'dry' end of the cam shaft

Any thoughts?........

Cheers Stef

Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

starfire

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Re: guess what
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 08:51:40 AM »
Today I removed and cleaned the injector pump.
Now its not working well.
Is there a proper relationship between the rack, the cog, and the piston? The rack obviously can go only one way, the cog can go in any way, the piston can go two ways depending on the cog position. The rack now has limited travel when connected to the governor linkage, it wont open fully, or if the linkage is adjusted to open fully, then the rack wont close completely. The thing is driving me nuts. The engine runs fine otherwise.
I guess what Im asking, is there a right position of the piston in relation to the cylinder given the placement of the spill groove?
Note to self, take more time to study stuff as you pull it apart
I watched and copied this, relevant part 5 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=091xsWZ2wHY&t=170s

Indians are clever but hard to understand.....
Have I missed something?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 08:53:43 AM by starfire »

dieselgman

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Re: guess what
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 09:11:00 AM »
When I rebuilt my 6/1 with taper roller bearings (to make best use of a well worn crank) I modded the two pipes that fed oil to the main bearings to feed into the open sides of the TRB's.

Butch, 38 AC, pointed out that this wasn't really necessary as there is far more oil slung around the crank case by the dipper than will ever be required, and that Listeroids with TRB's as original equipment have no oil pump anyway.

I've left the pump in to circulate the oil through a spin off filter

Without looking I don't know when the 'pulse' of the oil pump occurs, but might it be feasible to redirect one arm up to squirt on to the bottom of the piston, at BDC, in a similar fashion to some high speed diesels I've worked on?

It wouldn't harm the small end (wrist pin, for those on the other side of English!) bearing, and I doubt the cooling of the piston it's self would be a negative issue, but there would surely be a transfer of heat down to the sump.

The other leg could be lead off to the lonely bearing at the 'dry' end of the cam shaft

Any thoughts?........

Cheers Stef

Extra oiling for the camshaft bearings? A very good thing.
Cooling the piston? Certainly not needed nor even desirable in one of these engines.

Strictly my opinion, but non-scientific. Sometimes maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks!

dieselgman
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dieselspanner

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Re: guess what
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 01:05:26 PM »
I wasn't thinking of the piston cooling but the heating of the oil for the reasons suggested earlier in the post.

It would also keep all the plumbing inside the crank case, if any of it failed the system would be no worse off than before and the oil wouldn't be heading for the shed floor instead of the big end!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

starfire

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Re: guess what
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 01:16:37 PM »
Now, heres a thought.
Why not have the oil pumped through the water jackets prior to getting to the bearings? Sounds daft, but think about it., eliminates radiators and fans, simple and altogether quite neat in theory.  Theres an awful lot of surface area in a Lister sump and crankcase to disperse heat, thats why the oil stays cold.......... 8)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 01:19:39 PM by starfire »

cujet

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Re: guess what
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2017, 12:13:25 PM »
Now, heres a thought.
Why not have the oil pumped through the water jackets prior to getting to the bearings? Sounds daft, but think about it., eliminates radiators and fans, simple and altogether quite neat in theory.  Theres an awful lot of surface area in a Lister sump and crankcase to disperse heat, thats why the oil stays cold.......... 8)

It might work in an engine with no load. However, there is enough BTU to dissipate under load, the surface area of a lister would likely be insufficient without massive airflow and would quickly overheat. Not to mention that oil does not transfer heat rapidly, as the specific heat of oil is roughly half that of water.
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

starfire

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Re: guess what
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2017, 12:02:23 AM »
I have great success with oil heating by using an oil cooler from a boat. http://www.go2marine.com/category/14779/oil-coolers-for-boats.html the link gives a general idea of the type of cooler. I got mine used, maybe fleabay, so don't let those retail prices put you off.
 I put it in the hot water up leg of the thermo-siphon so I selected a cooler with a water connection to match the hose from the Ashmamegh 25/2.
I re-piped the oil system inside the crankcase so the pump discharge pipe went up to the oil cooler (now heater) then thru a spin on oil filter and back into the engine.
I also run a bypass filter, a Frantz toilet paper element directly off the top of the oil pump discharge where you prime the pump. The outlet of this filter feeds a small dribble of oil to the 'dry' cam of the injector pump farthest from the governor.
The engine jacket water heats to about 190 degrees under load, and the oil temp is at least 180 degrees.
I have an attic fan in the garage where my generator is set up. The Radiator air flow is guided by a plywood plenum up to the fan. I control water temp by placing sheet plastic against part of the radiator, the vacuum from the fan holds it in place.

Did you notice cleaner oil after doing this??