More Listeroid fun

[38ac]

Another engine kit project in the shop for correction and completion and another way for India to screw up has been added to the list.  Owner had put it together and run it a bit and found the top shelf contained shavings,   In this case the crankshaft gear had not been deburred after machining and the gear teeth made a nice milling cutter for the main bearing thrust surface.  Deburring that gear while keeping the stone off the main bearing surface is delicate work. Here it is back together and end thrust set to .006


Everything that has my name attached comes all the way down and here is another reason for that practice,, the reading on that indicator is the high spot of the  (allways) bent camshaft out of the same engine.  Guys you cant believe how a cam bent such this messes up the valve event timing.  Check and straighten the camshaft! It is my belief that the bulk of the Listeroid timing issues  are due to bent shafts not improperly placed lobes as has been assumed in the past. This cam timed out within 4 degrees after straightening, we call that plenty good enough for 650-800 RPM.

[BruceM]

What, no Rajkot roulette played at your shop?!  

Thanks for sharing this new gotcha, Butch. One more thing to watch for and one more in a long list of reasons to remember that the Rojkot products should best be considered a kit of parts to be carefully checked and corrected.  

I also really appreciate your bent camshaft findings. I wonder if the peening of tapered pins of the cam lobes are being done in a manner that is screwing up these shafts?  It's hard to imagine that they would start with bent shafts, but I suppose that's possible.  The camshaft of my neighbor's 8/1 was slightly bent, and I'm sure it was hardened.  Perhaps the camshafts are not being adequately supported during heat treatment, or shafts are drilled before heat treatment and they aren't being straightened after?

[LowGear]

Just a quick word to thank the people that contribute to this blog that actually know what they're talking about.  Refreshing!

Casey

[dieselgman]

+1 to that Casey! I am very grateful for the expertise shared here!

dieselgman

[Thob]

So I'm curious about what kind of hammers and blocks etc. you use to straighten the cam shaft.  It is a matter of bending experience, or is there a scientific way to get it straight?  And is that better than starting over, say with a piece of stressproof steel shaft?

[38ac]

The India camshaft material is actually pretty good stuff, at least in my experiance. I don't know for certain how they get bent but I assume it has to do with their assembly practice. Properly fitted taper pins,  just like properly fitted gibb keys do not have to be sledge hammered in place but we all know that is standard practice there. Yes a person could start over and I would use 1144 or etd150. I have built a couple twin cams that way but never seen a single that was bad enough to require a new shaft. How they get straightened depends on how bad they are bent. A person needs to be careful about how hard he knocks things around as the gear and weights can be damaged from the shock. A few thousands can be fixed by supporting  the shaft on wood blocks and using  a hammer and drift. Bigger bends like this one go to the press. I always  wrap a rag around the weights when knocking the shaft as a precaution.   

[Gippslander]

You need a surface plate and V blocks to check the camshaft

I think I checked my camshaft  and it was useable as it was .Whew 

But my cam bushes were terrible, way too much clearance , I machined a new bush for one end from cast iron and reamed it after installing it.

[38ac]

You need a surface plate and V blocks to check the camshaft

Nope the check can be done in a cave but when the tools of trade are handy I use them  because it is quicker
With no such tools available install the cam without the lifters or guides and drop a "feeler" such as a length of #9 wire or  a rod down through the lifter hole. Place it near the shaft and hold it in place with a pair of vise grips. Then turn the cam while eyeballing the distance between the rod and shaft, with good light a person with decent vision can see  a couple thousands.  Out of the engine a wood 2x4 with a couple stands nailed to it at the right place and two nails driven on each to keep the shaft from rolling across the stands will do the same thing. You will still need a stationary reference such as a wire placed near the shaft between the lobes.  Once found mark the high spot then support the ends on wood blocks and knock it straight.

[38ac]

goof removed

[BruceM]

I made some homemade hardwood vee blocks on my table saw, which I used along with my magnetic dial gauge on my cast iron saw table for camshaft measurement. I used the vee blocks on the concrete floor when straightening...with the barbaric sledge and hardwood drift. Then put it back on the saw top to check it, again and again.  It took a LOT more force than I thought, and was pretty scary, but I did get the shaft straightened within a couple mils.  I'd try a friend's hydraulic press if I had to do it again.

My thanks to Butch for covering the cam shaft issue; it's something important we all missed in the past. It's been a boon to learn from his expertise.

[38ac]

Here is the 8/1 just on it's very first start and ticking over right at 650RPM per my SW shaft tachometer. Vibrating piece a junk aint it? LOL. This is where the careful prep on the 'wheels pays off, when this engine has a few minutes run time it should settle in nicely. This engine will be running at 800 RPM due to the pulley arraignment for the ST head. After I put the camera down I reved it up and it is real nice at 800RPM I doubt if I even play with the offset weight.   sorry for the lousy camera work.

[youtube]1lxUaI854PA[/youtube]

[mikenash]

Here is the 8/1 just on it's very first start and ticking over right at 650RPM per my SW shaft tachometer. Vibrating piece a junk aint it? LOL. This is where the careful prep on the 'wheels pays off, when this engine has a few minutes run time it should settle in nicely. This engine will be running at 800 RPM due to the pulley arraignment for the ST head. After I put the camera down I reved it up and it is real nice at 800RPM I doubt if I even play with the offset weight.   sorry for the lousy camera work.

[youtube]1lxUaI854PA[/youtube]

Sweet-running machine - I would think that would be a satisfying piece of work

Am I right in thinking you have made the diesel lines from hydraulic hose & crimp fittings?  Maybe 1/2 or 3/4 threads or some such size (just looking at that isolating valve) ?  - or maybe I'm not sure what I'm seeing.

I'd be really interested to hear the thinking behind that - they look extra tidy

Cheers, Mike

[BruceM]

Sweet, but my dream engine is still one of your awesome Bamford rebuilds. Thanks for sharing your first run video, Butch.

[38ac]

The fuel lines and filter are via the owner the fittings are the AN type, JIC would be functionally the same. Left up to my own devises I use the supplied filter and lines but modify the housing for a replaceable element.

[38ac]

Sweet, but my dream engine is still one of your awesome Bamford rebuilds. Thanks for sharing your first run video, Butch.

Bruce the very first engine project of my own that will go through the new shop will be a Z2 that I had started on before we moved. Don't hold your breath though, customer work kinda piled up when the shop was down.