Author Topic: hydraulic oil as fuel  (Read 14681 times)

xyzer

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2006, 01:37:03 AM »

You are in a unique position of advantage.  Your federal government apparently considers ATF to be so useful that they have an entire Bureau devoted to just that.

Not being able to simply pick up the phone and call the BATF...............................

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snail

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2006, 01:51:23 AM »
Mac,
     My powerline 12/2 burns used ATF quite happily if it is diluted with about 10 % kerosene.I've never tried heating it but ambient temperatures are around 30 C. Can be slightly smoky until motor is completely hot.I found I had a low compression motor originally but raising it to 17 :1 helps combustion a lot. My injectors came from the factory set to 150 bar, I read somewhere that some are set to 90 bar. This might make a difference. I've only got 250 hours on this set up so far but i have no reason to change and haven't checked the injectors for the last 200 or so hours. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Brian

rcavictim

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2006, 02:04:10 AM »
Mac,
     My powerline 12/2 burns used ATF quite happily if it is diluted with about 10 % kerosene.I've never tried heating it but ambient temperatures are around 30 C. Can be slightly smoky until motor is completely hot.I found I had a low compression motor originally but raising it to 17 :1 helps combustion a lot. My injectors came from the factory set to 150 bar, I read somewhere that some are set to 90 bar. This might make a difference. I've only got 250 hours on this set up so far but i have no reason to change and haven't checked the injectors for the last 200 or so hours. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Brian

Snail,

I find your news encouraging.  My VW engine has a 23.5 to 1 CR, so it is not low compression causing my problems with burning WTF.  My engine is indirect injection, which is suppossed to help in burning the alternative fuels.  That said, I have run a lot of straight VoltEsso 35 transformer oil (new stuff, no contaminants) last winter both about 100 gallons in my VW without any coking problems, and also 20 or so gallons in my 12 HP Petter single (direct injection) with good operation.  The viscocity of this xfmer oil and ATF is similar when at room temperatrure.  It HAS to be the suspended particulate matter causing my coking problem in the VW.

I wonder what is different about your engine that allows it to tolerate the suspended dust?
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albany dbd

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2006, 02:05:20 AM »
i run mostly wmo but i get 55 gal. of utf once a month and mix it in i like the way it runs  no coking.
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snail

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2006, 03:04:07 AM »
RCA,
     I'm sure you're right about the solid particles, but i don't know what the differences are between VW and 'roid injectors. I did get a little coking on one cylinder due to a slightly sticky injector caused by minor rust on needle (from new).Had em checked out (that's why I know about the 150 bar) and no problems since then. I would imagine that the VW item is a bit higher tech than the indian version, possibly with smaller orifices? I could see that solids would give more problems in that situation (No evidence, just a guess.) I'm sure that I have solids in my oil due to the cloudy appearance, and that brownish colour suggests burning clutches etc.

I'm thinking of trying the WMO route this year. Should I do anything different?

Brian

XHoosier

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2006, 06:52:37 PM »
Hi Again,

Thanks to all of you who have posted info on the ATF as fuel.  Your comments are really appreciated, and I will continue to monitor the posting to have a really good idea of all or none of the problems associated with running it with a Listeroid.

Mac

XHoosier

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2006, 06:56:43 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for all the posts on the ATF as fuel for the Listeroids, etc.  It is greatly appreciated and I will continue to monitor for any and all problems and/or good news on usage.

Keep Posting!!!
Mac

t19

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2006, 07:13:33 PM »
So has anyone found any problems running Hydraulic oil?  I have found a supplier with 55 gallon drum/week and  if it burns clean I want to use it.

I a concerned abount metal in the fuel but I figured lettng it stand and filitering with a 10 micron filter would fix a lot of that
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aqmxv

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2006, 08:06:48 PM »
T19 - if the metallic fines are ferrous, then hard drive magnets are the answer.  They're available free from anybody who works on PCs and hasn't yet figured out how useful the things are.
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t19

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2006, 09:22:38 PM »
I take it pulling the magnets at the bottom of the barrel does the trick nicely?
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rcavictim

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2006, 10:04:17 PM »
I take it pulling the magnets at the bottom of the barrel does the trick nicely?

I assume pulling is a typo meaning putting.  If you place the magnets at the bottom of the barrel they will only catch and hold ferrous metal particles that wander into their range by gravity or weak circulatory currents driven by room heat over time.  I think you would be better to place them in line somewhere like a catch bowl where you know the fuel will flow by next to them.  The slower the fuel flows in their vicinity the better, hence the idea of a catch bowl, a reservoir designed to slow the velocity of the fuel as it moves along.

I use two powerful neodemium magnets (1x1/4 inch disc) in the bottom of the sump of my Petter and they are good at catching the iron dust as it wears away.  I caught the most fuzz after initially getting the engine and running with the first batch of clean lube oil that was not used for more than a few hours after I rebuilt the engine.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 10:06:24 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

aqmxv

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Re: hydraulic oil as fuel
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2006, 04:51:10 PM »
rcavictim got it in one.  For best effectiveness with a magnet you want:

1) reliable flow
2) at a low rate
3) in a thin layer
4) over the magnet

Putting them in the bottom of the barrel will make sure that anything that settles out is retained (certainly a good idea), but it will provide no guarantee that anything entrained won't stay in the oil.  There are ferrous fines that are small enough that they will stay suspended in oil for months or years, and they are nothing but bad news in fuel.

Probably the perfect magnetic filter would be a thin rectangular cross-section passage with magnets on one of the long sides. As long as the flow rate and viscosity were low enough, you'd get essentially 100% of the ferrous fines onto the magnets.

On transmissions and splash-lubed crankcases, I put the magnet(s) inside in the splash pattern.  Usually there's an inspection cover somewhere that makes a convenient magnet mount.  I'll be putting several magnets in the bottom of the sump of my 6/1, and probably at least two on the inspection cover.  On hydraulic systems, I stick them in the reservoir near the return line entrance.  I stick them on the outside of spin-on oil filters, and in the return oil flow pattern on pressure-lubed crankcases.

There's no downside to the things as long as they're properly attatched.  The worst thing that could happen would be failure to clean the swarf off in a sufficiently timely matter resulting in a chunk breaking off and washing around in the lube.  That's one reason I generally put these where they can be inspected easily, or on a remove&replace component like an oil filter.
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