Author Topic: A bucket of soot  (Read 4698 times)

Hugh Conway

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A bucket of soot
« on: November 20, 2016, 10:08:36 PM »


A few days ago I dug up the Pit-of-Doom and removed a section of the concrete lid.

After 1000+ hours, I wanted to see what it looked like in there. Found it had a lot of carbon powder......soot. Shovelling it into a bucket, there was at least 2 gallons of the stuff.
Due to the large volume of the pit, the soot was not in danger of plugging up the pit, but I wonder what would have resulted if I used a regular muffler as in an automobile or truck. Would there have been a serious exhaust restriction?
I am sure I have done a great service to delay global warming by capturing all of that carbon, did not get any on my boots, so did not contribute to an increase in my carbon footprint. :)
I have not put my Dursley 6/1 into service yet, but the day is fast approaching. No possibility of a Pit-of Doom set up, as it will be next to a rock bluff. Any recommendations for an inexpensive and easy to make sound reducing exhaust that will not get a carbon clog after a number of hours run time?

What are your experiences?

Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

mike90045

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 12:51:55 AM »
Wow.  I hope my rig has enough pulse power to keep the truck muffler clear.   I get a fair amount of dry fluffy soot on the outlet.

Hugh Conway

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 01:13:05 AM »
@Mike
Dry fluffy soot is what I shovelled out of the pit.
The exhaust from the pit is a lazy white stream, with a small amount of pulsing visible. Looks more like steam, maybe it is steam, as the bottom of the pit is just earth and damp earth at this time of year!

Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

vdubnut62

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 04:20:10 AM »
Nice Hugh! Now I would till the offending soot into a patch of ground with a few handfuls of lime and ammonium nitrate and and see how Turnip Greens would grow on it.
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

glort

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 02:13:32 PM »

A muffler would get a lot hotter than the earth and the soot would dislodge or burn out.
A good squirt with water in the engine intake while it was running would dislodge a lot of soot as well.   The cold ground is probably condensing otherwise invisable soot out of the exhaust gas.

LowGear

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 05:18:54 PM »
Good work Hugh.  And keep on keeping those foot prints small.

I've heard it's the stuff you can't see that is really dangerous.

Are you burning diesel or something else?

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BruceM

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »
I would do another leach field muffler, if I was building another setup for myself.  It makes induction draft cooling of the radiator impossible, but the utter lack of exhaust note and exhaust smell is great.  We did it while the septic leach field was being installed, so the extra backhoe cost was minimal.  It would take a heck of a long time to fill the 25' trench with 3" cinders with soot.  There is almost nothing coming out- just a tiny volume of cool earthy smelling air.


vdubnut62

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 08:29:21 AM »
BruceM, is there  a write up someplace with  details as to exactly how you went about constructing the leach field muffler?  That is exactly what I need to construct to complement the
Roid and the 1115 Xingdong in their new digs. The lack of cooling draft won't be missed as the woodboiler  is going to start with 500 gal of hot water storage. I plan on cogen to a point.
Thanks, Ron.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 08:32:31 AM by vdubnut62 »
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

38ac

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 02:41:23 PM »
BruceM, is there  a write up someplace with  details as to exactly how you went about constructing the leach field muffler?  That is exactly what I need to construct to complement the
Roid and the 1115 Xingdong in their new digs. The lack of cooling draft won't be missed as the woodboiler  is going to start with 500 gal of hot water storage. I plan on cogen to a point.
Thanks, Ron.

Ron , In your part of the world I am surprised that you are not required to have twin chrome straight stacks on those engines,,,, ;D ;D ;D :D :D
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

veggie

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 03:06:03 PM »
Hugh,

You did note that you cannot go underground, so....

A couple of points that I have learned about exhaust systems.
1] Dont make the run overly long. As the gasses cool the h20 will condense in the line and water will collect.
If I have a horizontal run of any length (say 10 ft or more) I put a slight slope in the line draining away from the engine.
If you must run horizontal for any great distance consider a water dropout tee where the pipe turns vertical and put a sizeable hole in the bottom where the water can soak into some gravel.
2] Carbon. By keeping the run short you keep the gas temp higher so that the water stays as vapor, but you also keep the velocities high and the pulse is stronger, hence carrying the soot through to the atmosphere (Yay !)  :o . This is what keeps your muffle clean.
3] Use an automotive muffler with 2" or larger connections. Smaller sizes create restriction and back pressure.
4] Go vertical. Turn upwards as soon as possible and go high enough so that winds carry the soot or you may have black powder all over your roof and walls within a month or so.

my $0.02

Good luck,
Veggie



« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 03:08:06 PM by veggie »
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BruceM

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 04:57:49 PM »
Hi Ron, no written plans. We used 8' of 2" pipe with 3/4" holds on sides and bottom, end smashed to reduce output.   This is buried in the middle of 2 feet deep by 16" wide trench filled with 3" cinders.  We put aluminum flashing over the first 12 feet of cinders, then 8" of dirt.  Plastic over the cinders for the rest.  The outlet is 8 feet of 4"" perforated PVC leach field pipe with extra holes, a 90, and a 4' riser.  We caped it with a 4 inch galvanized vent cap.  Our total length was about 25 feet.

This was a wild assed guess and was not based on any flow calculations.  My impression is that it's significantly over built, since the exhaust can barely be heard with your ear in the outlet with the cap off. After a long days run, the output is still cool and earth smelling.

I know this has nothing to do with Hugh's immediate problem of rocky ground. 

For mufflers I concur with Veggie and will add that a bigger expansion volume is better on mufflers where softening the Wuff Wuff is needed. 

Why not do an above ground masonry muffler, Hugh?  Or a double thickness Hardyboard box? 


vdubnut62

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 05:59:04 PM »
BruceM, is there  a write up someplace with  details as to exactly how you went about constructing the leach field muffler?  That is exactly what I need to construct to complement the
Roid and the 1115 Xingdong in their new digs. The lack of cooling draft won't be missed as the woodboiler  is going to start with 500 gal of hot water storage. I plan on cogen to a point.
Thanks, Ron.

Ron , In your part of the world I am surprised that you are not required to have twin chrome straight stacks on those engines,,,, ;D ;D ;D :D :D

38ac, that's why I am hiding them in a woodshed/ wood boiler house. If I get caught without the chrome stove pipes for exhaust, this bunch is liable to try and take my man card. :D :D :D :D  Just let 'em try. Cold dead fingers and all that BS. ;D


Thanks Bruce! That is just what I needed to know. The new shed is going to be pretty close to my bedroom. I wanted it a little farther away, but have you priced wire of any size lately?! Ye Gods and little fishes. I have a 500 ft spool of 4 awg sitting in the living room floor. That way I can keep it under armed guard till I get it planted. ::)
Ron.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 06:11:45 PM by vdubnut62 »
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

Hugh Conway

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 10:13:14 PM »

Interesting responses! Several different solutions. In my case, I think BruceMs suggestion of the masonry muffler maybe best. I would love to try the leach field set-up, but that is impossible in this location.

One of my friends has offered a very large muffler off an excavator. I tried it in a lash-up but was not satisfied with reduction in the exhaust note. I think an automotive silencer will clog too easily after seeing all the soot that I collected with the Pit.

Recently, we tore down an old building with the intention of building a woodworking shop space along with a room for a couple of freezers and bee equipment storage. Working in between this incessant rain, we have managed to get the walls framed up, and are waiting for the wind (blowing a gale just now) and rain to slack off so we can get the roof joists up.  Goes a bit more slowly when you are operating at geezer velocity!

This is where the Dursley comes in to power the building. I will give it its own insulated room, unlike the Listeroid, which lives outside under a shed roof.
In tearing down the old place, I was able to salvage some chimney blocks..... five of them, concrete, about 17" square on the outside with thick walls. The blocks are 8" high. I figure on sandwiching some 2" thick concrete slabs with offset holes in them as baffles. Even have the old cast iron clean out door. We really like working with what is on hand, and most times have to do that anyway.
 
I have all the materials laying around, so might as well put them to use. Seems like it could all go together without mortar, so could be easily disassembled for cleaning/inspection.

This all will take some time, I will let you know how it works out.
Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

vdubnut62

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Re: A bucket of soot
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 03:11:13 AM »
Hello Hugh!  I've kept quiet up till now except for my usual flair for dragging conversations completely off topic. I do have an observation, the re-purposed flue sounds like a great idea
and with selective block offs a labyrinthine path will be very quiet I predict.
 I think, (oh boy here we go) you will need to get the stack up in the air at least 10 or 12 feet so you don't get dosed by the diesel funk.
 Also, when I was a boy, I helped Dad tear down a bunch of old fireplaces and flues in and around Monterey TN. where I grew up. Most of them were built right at the turn of the last century so had lasted in good condition for 70 years or so. My point being that they were built using a mixture of lime and sand for mortar.  The benefits are no exhaust leaks, a more solid construction in case of a tremor or two. It also cleans from brick and block very easily, making a yearly or longer cleanings 'way simpler than you would believe. I cleaned the brick with an old hatchet and it was good to go. (we were building a house at the time & Mom had a thing for old brick)
Lime and sand are pretty much dirt cheap here, could you use local sand from your property?
Just my thoughts.
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous