Author Topic: DES 8/1 generator build  (Read 28355 times)

gusbratz

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DES 8/1 generator build
« on: October 10, 2016, 07:17:01 PM »
I am in the beginning stages of putting a new DES 8/1 and 10kw st head together in my greenhouse as backup power. I just got the stuff in the mail last week.  I thought I would try to post some pics here for you to look and enjoy as I build it over the winter.  I started tearing the engine down last night. I  got the flywheels off and everything but the crank out.  The  sump looks filthy like some real bad used oil was run in it during the test run but for the most part it is going good? I saw no oil groove inside the timing idler gear, I guess I am used to seeing that in a gear like that, wondering  if I should  cut one? I also noted 2 shims on 1 side of the rod bearing cap but just 1 shim on the other side. not sure what's up with that.  I have a needle descaler and plan on trying to get all the paint out of the inside of the frame but how else do you clean the frame ? do you just lower it into lye and water and let it soak? thanks gus.

dieselgman

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 07:32:22 PM »
Sodium Hydroxide (Lye), plus water, plus heat = clean cast iron. Most commercial solutions require the heat before the mixture gets really active, I think around 180 to 190F.
Do not get any aluminum parts into this mixture! They will generally degrade rapidly and turn black unless you have one of the specially buffered mixtures made for cleaning aluminum.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 07:34:39 PM by dieselgman »
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38ac

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 08:08:28 PM »
Everything will fit inside a 55 gallon drum when disassembled,  but not all at the same time. Set one up on some blocks KS or brick ad build a fire under it. Be super careful around the lye mixture!!!!! PPE is mandatory! !!!!.  Build a tripod or set it up under a tree so you can hoist the heavy parts out. Same thing can be done cold with cheap oven cleaner rom the dollar store and pressure washer but it takes a good bit more work to do it that way. an
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BruceM

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2016, 08:15:54 PM »
I think you could successfully heat a tank full of lye solution by dropping in few dozen empty aluminum cans or pieces from a roll of aluminum foil.  It eats the aluminum and creates heat and hydrogen.  The tank better be outside!

I've used this recipe in a 5 gallon plastic pail with lid and pipe attached to lid. The water/lye heats up fast and cooling water must be run on the outside or it would melt the bucket.  Great for filling garbage bags with hydrogen or other hydrogen experiments.  The first bit of gas has air mixed with it and will make quite a bang if lit.

Bravo on your strip down Gusbratz. Gary of DES gave us outstanding support for our DES 8/1 conversion to propane., and I got a lot of excellent help from folks here on the forum too.  The inside of our crankcase was quite rough so we die grinded the whole thing smooth before spraying with red electrical varnish. My needle scaler was too long to be worth much inside the case. A big carbide burr made fast work of shaping the rough openings and removing casting flash. Stones are slow on cast iron- only good for smoothing.



« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 08:23:14 PM by BruceM »

gusbratz

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2016, 10:13:14 PM »
i was like a kid on chrismas morning. my wife thought it was funny that i kept smiling.  this is all the bits that were in the smaller box. not sure what the little green plastic straps are for in the plastic bag.

then the frame out of the crate sitting on the floor to kind of get an idea of how large a foundation i will need to pour.

32 coupe

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2016, 11:13:27 PM »

I believe the plastic pieces go between the fuel tank and the fuel tank straps.



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gusbratz

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2016, 02:11:48 AM »
Ahh, that makes sense, but  for some reason this engine did not come with a fuel tank or straps.

32 coupe

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2016, 02:31:57 AM »

They did you a favor. The fuel tanks were only good for the trash bin !

Gary

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dieselgman

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2016, 03:29:21 AM »
Correct... we have found that 90% of them are rejects for one or more reasons. They are thin-walled and often poorly sealed. Most of them arrive with substantial rust damage both inside and outside. I have pestered them a bit about these problems, but to no avail so far. Original Lister tanks are at least double the thickness in the sheet-metal and have good quality fittings and caps, too bad we cannot get them any longer.

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mike90045

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2016, 06:33:14 AM »
Look into elevating your concrete pad, so the engine sits higher and is easier to work on, some members
have done this and can explain it better than I.  Be sure the flywheels clear the concrete !

glort

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2016, 07:29:39 AM »
Correct... we have found that 90% of them are rejects for one or more reasons. They are thin-walled and often poorly sealed. Most of them arrive with substantial rust damage both inside and outside. I have pestered them a bit about these problems, but to no avail so far. Original Lister tanks are at least double the thickness in the sheet-metal and have good quality fittings and caps, too bad we cannot get them any longer.

dieselgman

There must be the good  Domestic quality products and the crap export quality with these engines.
Surely if they sold the locals such crap there would be problems? They don't have the resources of the average westerner to clean sand out of sumps and leaky tanks, Balance flywheels, tappets that don't turn and all the other common problems.

 Can't see how they could sell it locally when there would have to be recourse from disgruntled customers.

I'm really thinking If I can get hold of a genuine Lister or a 10 HP water-cooled China horizontal, my roid will be finding a new home.
All my china engines seem to lave the roids for dead. Not to mention the Italian and German machines.

dieselgman

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 10:36:53 AM »
It is just the darn fuel tanks that have hit an impasse due to cost and other practical demand issues. I consider it a non-essential and inconsequential piece of the total picture. Most people do not even install an engine mounted fuel tank. We continue to work in a positive direction on most everything else, it just takes a lot of time and patience.

I am a firm believer in the value and strengths of the original Lister designs as well as the current dynamics of viability in the world... it is hard to beat overall despite some problems in dealing with India in general. Of course, there are still plenty of original British machines to be had so we have a good standard to aspire to and many of the clone projects I have been involved with do achieve a good level of reliability and functionality. China is a similar nut to India in many ways, it is difficult to enforce ethics when dealing with a profit motive and people who feel insulated by the international distances in both geography and culture. We are dealing with both countries on a regular basis for our support of, and involvement with the generator business.

Regarding exporting crap, I am told that in actuality, export grade is the best stuff and what is kept and sold within the country is actually the reject crap. A completely different standard of expectations and pricing structure exists there. Just how true that might actually be is difficult to ascertain, although I have traveled there and observed the working conditions and practical applications for these machines. You and I would not do the same things with the equipment. I can clearly recall a fairly large cement mixer drum being spun by one of the 6/1 machines chugging away in a pile of dirt and debris so deep you wouldn't think it could last an hour. It is clearly a different world than the fully developed Western countries.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 10:49:22 AM by dieselgman »
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gusbratz

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2016, 12:07:26 PM »
i don't need a tank because i plan on running it off a bulk tank. i also plan on an elevated foundation as recomended. it makes me sad thinking about the poor people and how little they have. i wish they could get up to where we are. but then again what glimpses we have here of the past are usually our best examples to have stood the test of time. the best barns, best old houses, best old factories. leading us to believe this country has always been this good. if you really study old pics of a old logging camp or leather tannery with shanty town beside it i wonder if it was closer to india or china here 130 years ago than we would like to admit. i have a series of books called "echos from oil country". written first hand by an engine mechanic about his exploits in the western pa oilfields in the 1880. if you think you are a mechanic you won't after reading what he did with so little to  work with.  cutting new flywheel keys in the woods with nothing but a cold chisel and file. truing non parallel crank pins with files. casting new parts in the field with a home made foundry made from sand from the local creek, using the cracked flywheel as both the pattern and then breaking it up and melting it down to reuse the cast iron in his mold. i bought the books from lindseys when they were still in business. i think oldtimey book store has his stuff now.

gusbratz

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2016, 03:55:16 PM »
some more progress pics. I got the engine all torn down and made a frame to lay out the bolt pattern.  what is the small bolt hole beside the compression release? is that just there just for the factory when they drilled the oil hole in the top of the cam carrier?



I also made some better J bolts because the ones supplied with the engine had very poorly cut threads and i didn't want them to strip out or something and they can't be replaced. note the scraps of conduit on the bolts. this makes it so you can move the bolt from side to side it you are off a little on positioning. they will get filled in when grouting.

then i got the hole dug and the forms built for the pedestal yesterday. i was pretty tempted to just lay that form on top of the bricks but decided to go ahead and dig the 24" hole under it after all. the general engineering of the cs lister is obviously over kill so may as well just stick with it throughout the whole project. i think if lister had designed a picinic table it would have been made of railroad ties and 4x4's lol.


today got the concrete made with my little electric mixer. not bad for being on 2nd shift all week.



Tom

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Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2016, 05:43:15 PM »
The little hole is for oil when it hasn't run for a few months. Is there any rebar in that block of concrete? I like how you gave your lister a view.
Tom
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