Author Topic: Blasphemy..... Solar power.  (Read 104428 times)

glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #495 on: August 17, 2020, 02:05:43 PM »

Hey Ed,

I started with north panels because my first installs were on the shed which has the pitch at North south.  worked out nicely.
The house is mainly west across the back which is the longer roof. This place is 26.6 x 10.5 wide and the roof Height is 6M so a lot more on the west than north roof.

The north aspects here are definitely better in winter but the west produces the best power availability in summer.  I was producing over 5KW to 7pm last summer  and I was probably nearly 10 Kw down on what I have now.
the other thing I figured out early on is the misnomer ( largely) of tilt, particularly ideal tilt as all the solar Gurus go on with.

My shed roof is 5 and 13o.  I was worried I'd be loosing a ton of power till I crunched the Numbers. From Oct to March here, the low angle is better than the ideal tilt of latitude which here is 34o.  Yes, in winter the steeper tilt is better but.... because the the winter generation is so much lower anyway, the losses or in fact DIFFERENCES between the tilts isn't a lot of Kwh a day anyhow.
the other thing is the best tilt for overcast weather is near flat so that sways the annual generation closer to Ideal tilt as well.

As the sun is always Moving, the tilt is only ideal about a fortnight a year. If one were pedantic one would adjust the tilt 4 times a year. At least.  Myself I prefer the Brute force method of just covering all the roof space and then some ( ground mount) with panels.
Actually, I'm not even at half the house or the shed yet.  In the front yard which is east which catches the morning sun, I have the certified Biggest Muther of a tree in the district.  Needless to say the shading on that roof would be significant.  Also have the south roof which in summer, would definitely pull it's weight with the nearly vertical sun angle .

Now if I loaded those 2 aspects as well...... 100Kwh would be a slow day in summer.

A good one would be watching the power pole out the front burn.
Again.

A number of off Gridder electronic Genius's I talk to with their own battery systems are setting up their panels east west at a 60O angle.
This isn't the most high yielding setup but it does provide the most year round constant output for battery charging.  No midday peak, just a good, long steady output for the longest time.

I spose you have to keep all your panels on rooftops to protect them From the Miscreants?
Maybe if you put them on poles  at ground level above a 30 Ft deep Cesspool that was only 10 Ft deep with Shi.... Fill, that may deter them somewhat..... especially if you energised the pooled matter? 
Just for fun, dig the pit like a flask, wider at the bottom than the top to deter  the miscreants that fall in escaping from where they belong.

EdDee

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #496 on: August 17, 2020, 02:18:04 PM »
A good one would be watching the power pole out the front burn.
Again.  - Hmmmm.... I wonder what caused it last time?

I spose you have to keep all your panels on rooftops to protect them From the Miscreants? ... Yep

30 Ft deep Cesspool that ....  That is Soooooo tempting!!

flask, wider at the bottom... You and I aren't possibly related, are we? .... I would almost go for grease impregnated sides too.... Just to make sure!!

Lol
Ed
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Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

ajaffa1

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #497 on: August 18, 2020, 10:21:01 AM »
G`Day Guys. It`s been a while since I had the opportunity to view the LEF. We got the internet re-connected a couple of weeks ago via satellite, but still no telephone.
Looks like our old mate Glort has been a very busy boy, I wonder if he has consulted a structural engineer to confirm that his house and it`s roof will carry the weight of that many panels!
I would certainly like his help and advice on a new solar array. While our house burned down, our shed survived and has ample roof space for a solar installation, the local solar installer is coming to see me this week.
We are now living between a caravan and a habitable converted shipping container, we have mains power and the last bill was way more than we paid when we had a house. I guess we are using imported electricity for everything at the moment: heating, hot water & etc. Come the summer it will get very expensive when we have to run portable air conditioners.
I have no idea as to how much energy we would be allowed to feed back into the grid but our last system was a 5KW unit. There has been recent government approval for a renewable energy zone based around Armidale but I have no idea if that extends as far as our area.
On the Lister side of things, I had a problem with the ST2 SOM, it would not run at full throttle. I traced the problem back to the underground exhaust pipe which had partially melted in the bush fires restricting the flow of exhaust gases. The Lister CS runs like a charm but has a leaking fuel system which needs to be addressed. Sadly it will have wait, right now I have a house to build and 20 acres of dead trees to clear. Far too late in life to become a lumberjack!

I`m a lumberjack and I`m OK
Bob




glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #498 on: August 18, 2020, 11:22:26 AM »

Hi Bob,

Great to hear from you mate. Hope you and Narelle are doing good.
I sent you some emails but I guess they didn't go through.

Actually, I did talk to a Builder mate about the weight loading on the roof. As it's spread out and with the roof design, he said it's a total Non concern. Those panels do add up quick though. I limit how many I take up north at a time not by the volume but by the weight.

Whatever you want to know about a solar setup feel free to ask.   I don't know how legit you want to be for the meantime but you could save a lot with used panels. I also have some Brand new 4Kw Inverters that are cheap as Chips. Not on the BS  " Approval" list any more but 100% new and fitted as original equipment before. What sort of power meter do you have? If you still have the old spinny type you are laughing.

You could set up a small system just for an AC. On mine I put a DPDT relay on the compressor that kicked in an inverter that offset the AC usage.  You could do that, Run the AC for nothing and no one would ever know.  The other easy thing is the hot water. Just hook the panels to that and let them heat the water. I'm working on a couple of Controllers for that now to get max efficiency but you can make it work direct as well.  Taking the big loads off make it easy to save the $$.

I'll send you my direct contacts again in case you lost them. 



glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #499 on: August 18, 2020, 12:42:29 PM »

What a difference a day makes as they say in the classics. So much for my 100Kwh day. Knew that wasn't going to happen as soon as I opened my eyes and saw the cloud cover in the delayed dawn light.  Stayed pretty crappy most of the day and I was surprised to get the 60.1 Kwh I did. Had I have guessed, I'd have figured more like 40 so I guess that was an upside.

Looking at the forecast ( now there is optimism for you!) looks like I won't get a shot at the 100Kwh Day till the weekend. If I don't crack it by Monday I'll cheat and throw another couple of KW worth of panels on the ground mount.  Just thinking, won't be here to see Sundays output. Bummer.

The difference between today and yesterday does illustrate the futility and stupidity of even proposing to run a grid on unreliable energy.  If one needed say 100MW a day, putting in even 500Mw would not be enough to cover the bad weather days and then how you going to store say 50Mw and what happens if it's bad weather 2 days in a row?  Most years we get a Fortnight of crappy weather and rain here.  A week straight is several times a year at least.


I did do some crunching of numbers today as the only solar calculator site I can find that is sensible and practical was back up.

I was looking at the difference in Yield I'd get tilting my shed array ( about 4.5Kw)  up from it's 8o average angle to the " Ideal" 34o.
Pretty much I'd gain about 285 Kwh over the cooler 6 months from April to Sept with winter here in the middle or on what I pay for power, about $80 worth. BFD!

To put that in perspective and once again proving my Rule of inefficient solar is the MOST efficient, I could do much better than that by simply adding 3 extra panels to the array.  As it turns out, as I have the strings laid out now, I could add another 5 panels easily lengthways between what I have. Being winter generation I'm chasing, they wouldn't shade either. May get some in summer but easily overcome putting them on a tracker of their own.  With an additional 4 panels ( 1kw)  I'd make almost 3 times the gain of tilting the ones I have from the 8o roof angle to the prescribed 34o.

Adding panels is also far cheaper, infinitely less worry in high winds we get here and are basically stealth to everyone bar my next door Neighbour... whom I'm fitting a system on his shed for him  atm.  :0)

What I found even more interesting when playing around with the solar calculator was How little difference tilt makes in Winter.
My latitude is 34o which is said to be ideal.  In the 3 lowest solar radiation months here,  If I had a tilt  of 14o ( -20) I'd loose 20Kwh of power over those 3 MONTHS. At 24o I'd loose 7 Kwh for the 3 months, at 45o I'd gain 4 Kwh and at a steep 60o i'd loose 3 kwh, or 1Kwh a month.

In other words, in winter when power is at it's lowest, there is a huge margin you can do with tilt and it really doesn't get you anywhere.  I'd be Confident bird droppings, leaves or  a few passing clouds is going to influence things more than that over a 3 Month period.
Bottom line is, no way it's worth adjusting the panel tilt different to your roof... at least where I am.  More extreme latitudes may be different but I'd think it would be EXTREME latitudes and then you probably have snow so..... not going to make much what for anyway.

I didn't run the summer numbers, I suspect they are much the same and summer isn't what I have to worry about anyway. The much longer days mean you don't have to worry and other factors such as the falloff in panel and inverter output in hot weather are way more of a loss than tilt is going to work out at.  I reckon I'll shut 3/4 of my arrays down this summer and still be making more power than I can use.

Damn I need to find a power intensive, high demand Business for the summer months I can run from home to make some cash out of all this solar energy!

Thursday when I have some time I'll have to Re assign the inverter phases again. I have a 300Kwh spread between the phases ATM. 1 is 200Kwh in advance and the other is 100Kwh behind. Have to get that changeover switch and a bigger enclosure set up and also going to put some power outlets in both single and 3 phase.
Going to need a bigger wall to mount all this stuff!


veggie

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #500 on: August 19, 2020, 03:26:56 AM »


Set up a hydrolysis plant and make hydrogen from water !
The energy is now free.
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glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #501 on: August 19, 2020, 05:47:22 AM »


Set up a hydrolysis plant and make hydrogen from water !
The energy is now free.

I did that one mate and decided not to try it again!

I made several hundred litres of hydrogen and purged my system very well.  Made another 200L and thought I'd test the gas by Bleeding some into a plastic sandwich bag and Lighting it.  My hearing did come back after a few days, the shed windows did survive and by some miracle the cops didn't come.

I made the stupid mistake of assuming that Hydrogen was Like LPG, methane, Natural gas etc and had a fairly Narrow fuel air mix for detonation.
 I was wrong, Very wrong.

When I did look it up I saw that in fact Hydrogen has a VERY WIDE air Mix ratio at which point it is explosive. Almost any air in the gas will make it go Kaboom.  I'm not a precise or skillful engineer so the chances of me making a mistake with this stuff and Blowing myself to Kingdom come I rated as too good for comfort so I bled the gas out and will err on the side of caution and not go there again.
The other thing is the great difficulty in sealing Hydrogen from leaking given it's tiny Molecular Size. It's not something to use a barbed fitting on and a hose clamp and call it good.

Propaaaane, Methane, Diesel  etc I am fine playing around with.  Petrol and Hydrogen I consider to be material that are beyond my skill level for self preservation so I won't go down those roads.
Spose I could make Oxygen instead.  Might be interesting to Pipe some of that into an Oil burner and watch it take off.

I did try " supercharging" a small engine once with Oxygen after turning the fuel right up rich.  That worked really well.  For a short time.
If one kept the oxy down and had it set up with water injection, it may be a viable way to get some decent and reliable power out of an engine without the hassle of super or turbo charging and the cost of N20.

It's annoying that there is no other fuel that can be made with electrolysis. I guess the closest thing is using the power to keep a Large methane Digester at ideal temp for max yield. Wouldn't take much power in summer though. 

veggie

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #502 on: August 19, 2020, 03:21:14 PM »

Hmmmm.... anyone in your family interested in growing lots of food on a steady basis?

Solar power like you have could run EVERYTHING in a solar powered hydroponics greenhouse.
No soil, no weeds, no tilling.
It could power the pumps, LED lights (during shorter winter days), chillers, fans,  etc....
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
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glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #503 on: August 19, 2020, 11:18:58 PM »

I did have a crack at Aeroponics. Where the water is sprayed onto the roots of the plant. I like the non soil methods.
It worked really well at the last place but not so well here. I think this environment is a bit harsh.  Put in a shed with LED lights as you suggest may be the way to go .  I did have that, some cheap ebay Light bars I bought.  seemed to work OK, I was growing Nice lettuce very quick.
For Nurient I didn't bother with the expensive stuff, just got some good hardware store brand and used that along with a "Tea" made from compost and Rabbit Droppings which are supposed to be really good. The mrs Did love being able to walk to the back verandah and get fresh lettuce of different variety's, give it a rinse and put it in a salad and impressed a few friends with it. Like everything home grown, no comparison in taste to store bought.

I had a lot of grandiose plans for growing food when I came here but it seems the climate is a bit above my skill level.  I did grow Tomatoes last summer just in the ground and have had them growing right though winter. Man, have I grown tomatoes, like 4-5 Kg a DAY in summer.  Maybe 50 Plants was a bit overboard as the neighbour said, but what the heck, Had the space and I wasn't using it. Still not using it so I'll get the plough out and rip it up, turn in some manure and go again.  I'll put in a bit more variety this time.  Yellow and Green tomatoes as well as red ones!  :0)

I think you are spot on though, I do need a greenhouse to control the environment and grow reliably and successfully.

We have had a LOT of rain here which has made the weeds go nuts.  I have an electric hot water heater which I use to boil water by over riding the thermostat and use that to kill weeds.  I like the boiling water method. It kills those little bulbs on weeds you can never get out the soil and is Chemical and residue Free.  Pour on the boiling water, wait an hour, dig the ground and the weeds in which are now compost and plant again.  Best of all, zero cost and danger from the chemicals.
  I use a little PWM controller to pull the power back so I can just plug the heater into a normal power socket.
If I put the thing on a trolley I could probably use it as a steam weeder. 


So far this morning the sky is clear and the sun is out. Supposed to be a bit windy as it has been and always is this time of year but that will help the panels produce by keeping them cooler.  Maybe today is my 100Kwh day but see what the afternoon brings.

Been keeping the house toasty warm at night with 4 Fan heaters. The phases the  power circuits are on are the ones I back feed.  Even these last few cloudy days, still generating  2 and 4 Kwh more than we have been using.

glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #504 on: August 20, 2020, 11:24:32 AM »

Got there today, My first 100Kwh day.

Had to go to the Doc early and then shortly after getting home I got called out on a short notice Job.  I pushed that through so I could be home in time to read my inverters as once the sun goes and they shut down, the meters reset and the inverters cant be woken up until there is DC again.

Got there with a quite healthy 102.4 Kwh!

I knew soon as I looked at the first inverter is was in with a good chance as it was the highest reading I could remember on that setup.
 I did fix a bad connection on one of the cables a couple of months ago but other than that, the array was untouched.
The rest came in well so I think the result just had a bit to do with the clear skies and the very cold and blustery wind probably keeping the temp on the panels down.

Be interesting to see how the next few cold and windy days go but I'm going to have to shut off a couple of the inverters soon as I can't even burn off this much power trying and I'm getting too far ahead than what I'm comfortable with on the meters.