Author Topic: Blasphemy..... Solar power.  (Read 106615 times)

Tom

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2016, 08:04:54 PM »
Yes I to hope for new and long lived battery tech. The 48kw of industrial batteries in the basement are now 9 years old and starting to show some signs of aging. The were only $8k in '07, don't know what they'll cost now. The prismatic LiFePo high amp hour units do look viable as a replacement to me. There are other factors than KW and cycles. Acceptance and equalization burns a lot of amp hours turning H2O into gas.
Tom
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broncodriver99

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2016, 06:39:47 AM »
Watched the vid and the first thing that hit me was the price... $3000 for the smaller unit obviously being in the US
I had to check that was accurate and a look on the net seems it was along with the local price I had in my mind..... $15,000!!
I know there is a currency difference and other things that go with it but a 12K difference?  And I bet you yanks complain about 3500!

Dunno what you guys pay for power but the average 2 adult, 2 kid home here is taken to pay between 2500 and 3K a year for power and I'd say that is on the money.  If we could get them for even $4k allowing for dollar difference, they would be a 4 year return at very worst allowing for install etc.

WOW. That is a heck of a disparity. The currency exchange shouldn't be but about 40%. There may be some import tariffs on your end as the US doesn't do much of anything with export tariffs. Tesla did get a boat load of taxpayer money to aid developing their different technologies so maybe we in the US get to reap the benefit of our investment where the rest of the world may not. That generally isn't the case with our industry but who knows. We generally get hosed for high prices while the same company sells the same product in developing areas for pennies.  ::)

The US averages $0.12 per kilowatt hour for electricity. It is hard to nail down a national average for the standard family household as we have everything from dessert with evaporative cooling to northern areas that have basically 1 month of summer.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 06:43:46 AM by broncodriver99 »

guest23837

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2016, 11:10:52 AM »
The video was quite interesting however like others here I'd not be happy using old laptop batteries, the tend to be very old most people just leave the battery in situ and use AC power when the battery dies.

I saw mention of an Indian diesel scooter some time ago, http://motorbikewriter.com/india-unveils-innovative-diesel-scooter/, it seems to be a useful idea but like a battery that's affordable practical and long lasting the scooter never made it to production. An old guy like me would look silly on the scooter anyway! Surely there are better batteries coming down the line?

LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2016, 04:11:05 PM »
All in all I think we all know whimsical hot air when we see it. 

     1)   Compared used crap to brand new warrantied stuff.
     2)   Not including all of the included equipment.
     3)   Not discussing all of the not included equipment.

glort:     Oh my Gosh, I agree with you again and there's almost two weeks left in this month.

broncodriver99:   We have 6 KW of panels and still pay from $250 to $500 a month for electricity.  Yup, in Hawaii we are currently paying 31 cents a KWH.  And guess what?  The utilities commission just cut grid tie program by 50%.  Over generate at noon and get 15 cents a KWH credit and buy back a KWH at midnight for only 31 cents.  So HELCO is making 100% return per day on my investment.  Monopolies are good.  They make life simple.

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broncodriver99

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2016, 04:30:57 PM »
broncodriver99:   We have 6 KW of panels and still pay from $250 to $500 a month for electricity.  Yup, in Hawaii we are currently paying 31 cents a KWH.  And guess what?  The utilities commission just cut grid tie program by 50%.  Over generate at noon and get 15 cents a KWH credit and buy back a KWH at midnight for only 31 cents.  So HELCO is making 100% return per day on my investment.  Monopolies are good.  They make life simple.

You guys in Hawaii definitely get the short end of the stick on a lot of things. Sounds like the greed is strong with your electric company.

Can't beat the view though, eh?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 04:33:27 PM by broncodriver99 »

BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2016, 07:14:32 PM »
Casey, I was just wondering where all that power goes- A/C?  Is the house insulated? How many SF?  Solar hot water?  Electric clothes dryer?



buickanddeere

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2016, 07:33:05 PM »
broncodriver99:   We have 6 KW of panels and still pay from $250 to $500 a month for electricity.  Yup, in Hawaii we are currently paying 31 cents a KWH.  And guess what?  The utilities commission just cut grid tie program by 50%.  Over generate at noon and get 15 cents a KWH credit and buy back a KWH at midnight for only 31 cents.  So HELCO is making 100% return per day on my investment.  Monopolies are good.  They make life simple.

You guys in Hawaii definitely get the short end of the stick on a lot of things. Sounds like the greed is strong with your electric company.

Can't beat the view though, eh?

Hawaii suffers from do gooders that would make California do gooders jealous. No low cost nuclear , limited coal base load utility grid power generation. Hawaii generation is reciprocating diesel and some heavy oil and gas turbines that burn lighter more $$$ kerosene or #2 diesel. Hydraulic power generation is rather modest being run of river as the bunny huggers and high land prices preclude water storage dams.
   A couple of ship mounted nuclear units that are earthquake proof is the only way to lower Hawaii prices .
    However the other existing investors make $$$ supplying Hawaii would differ in opinion about nuclear.

dieselgman

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2016, 07:47:39 PM »
It occurs to me that some types of geothermal should be practical in some places. Perhaps those active zones are just not stable enough?

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BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2016, 09:44:48 PM »
Here's a thoughtful explanation of Hawaii's energy situation by a nuclear engineer. 
http://friendsofnelha.org/nuclear-power-for-hawaii/

Gary's suggestion of geothermal power makes me wonder about it's suitability for Hawaii; I know Iceland has developed that significantly. 

BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2016, 09:58:12 PM »
Here's an interesting article about the existing geothermal plant in Hawaii as well as a look at geothermal in the US and around the world. 

http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/geothermal-is-a-red-hot-topic/


dieselgman

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2016, 11:17:49 PM »
As usual... local resistance to progress because most of the benefits will be taken away from the community, add in the greenies and a mess of politics. It is a wonder anything gets accomplished these days.

I think that almost all human activity will have some environmental impacts... the logical keys would be to accurately weigh all of the factors for costs and risks, educate all of the people involved, obtain fully informed consent and carry out any such projects with Justice as a guiding principle.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 03:04:09 AM by dieselgman »
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buickanddeere

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2016, 01:20:38 AM »
  In Ontario the word is natural gas will be phased out in order to use all the surplus over priced subsidized wind and solar power.

LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2016, 05:22:34 PM »
WOW!  Talk about button city.

Those Tuesday talks are given at the Hawaii Electrical Company (HELCO) "show n tell" auditorium.  It's always nice to know who's paying for the free somethings.  There is enough geo energy to easily supply the big island and there have been positive feasibility studies about running the excess to the other islands.  Of course the corporate leaders of HELCO might have to explain to the other corporations they serve why or how they have lost the oil shipping contracts and refinery revenues.

I'm still curious how my 6KW system challenges the grid but their acre sized solar arrays are just fine and dandy.

Please don't infer that petroleum isn't subsidized.  We have lost over 6800 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan so far this century.  Do you have any idea how much we spend on the 20,000 navy personnel in the Gulf alone each day.  Please.

Do you consider Grand Coulee Dam to be a subsidy?  Do you consider the US interstate highway system to be a subsidy?  Do you consider all of the research and development of nuclear power to be a subsidy?  (Or the clean up costs?)

Tax credits for home owners on solar is a drop in the bucket.  How is it that when a large corporation gets a "no stinking subsidy" it's for national defense or jobs but when I want a tinsy piece of the pie I'm a blood sucking tree hugging do-gooder?

LowGear

I think I'm wired up.  Now where's that gas powered lawn mower as I have some man's work to do.  Stinky, dirty, noisy man work!  Hmmmmm;  Where can I expand the grass area so I won't be faced with one of those wussy electric mowers on the next mower purchase.


« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 05:34:32 PM by LowGear »
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LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2016, 05:31:46 PM »
Hi dieselgman,

When you find that sane universe would you please let me in on the secret location?

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LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2016, 06:17:06 PM »
Now to bring this thread back from the edge of politics and into the arena of solar power and the Tesla Wall thing.  When the giga-factory gets caught up with production and the price drops a bit I'll be going to the kiss my insulators grid system.  There are a couple of modifications needed:

4 KW more of solar panels.  (Subsidized)
Tesla Walls.   (Subsidized - I hope))
Some device to handle my SunnyBoy inverters so they can control my micro grid and charge my Tesla Wall or a US made competitor.  (I hope you all source your own suppliers before you start paying around the world shipping.)
Propane kitchen cooker.
Solar water booster and maybe a propane water heater.  (My next project to complete.)
Propane clothes dryer.
Conversion of my pond pumps from direct electric to air powered via small compressors with timers.
Maybe even getting the Witte tied into the Tesla Walls.

I like a 5 year payback.  OK, so right now I'm getting about a 50 year payback on my savings so it doesn't take much to push me over the edge.

Casey


« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 06:20:06 PM by LowGear »
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