Author Topic: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.  (Read 5758 times)

guest22972

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Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« on: February 06, 2017, 12:36:57 PM »

I have cracked the barrel on one of my air cooled Diesels.
Missed it at first but after removing the head and seeing the gasket was ok but tracking down the Hissing Noise, On the 2nd head removal I found it.
It's a little 165 engine and I'd really like to save it.

Can a shop weld and re bore the Cylinder? Someone told me a liner could be inserted ( none in the engine now) but I can't imagine anyone having the right size unless you can buy them in thousandths of an inch diameter to suit anything and everything.
Is there some other method of repair that doesn't cost the national debt?

EdDee

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 02:47:48 PM »
Hey Glort,

Welding an air cooled cyl in the pressure area(Longitudinal, in the ring travel area) is generally a no-go... I have seen it done, but hard spots/pitting develop and can chew rings in the medium term even if you can get it bored out and cleaned up successfully after the weld. If the crack is between the fins (90 degrees to the axis of the bore) and above the top ring travel, you can part off the top few mm and install gasket/spacer/gasket/head if money is tight - obviously it needs a good looking at to determine if it is viable (head bolt thread area et al)... Drop in a couple of pics on your next post so we can see....

What do you think (or know) caused it to crack?

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
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oldgoat

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 03:01:03 PM »
Getting a liner to fit isn't a problem.I had a LD1 rebored with a liner to fit the undersized worn piston as it was cheaper route to go. But welding a cylinder and the attempting to bore it would be a drama I would think.

Hugh Conway

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 05:53:38 PM »
I would think that a dry liner is the solution. Had that done with my Dursley 6/1, not all that costly and an easy task for the engine rebuild shop. have a look into that solution. I would think a liner to be no more costly than the weld, re-bore.
cheers,
Hugh
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EdDee

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 08:26:10 AM »
Hey Glort....

Only one word to say:

OuchWTFwereYOUthinkingORnotTHINKINGwhenYOUhitTHEinletWITHsoMUCHjuice....

But seriously though... I saw someone empty about 1/2 a can of ether based starting fluid down a air intake over about 1/2 an hour of trying to start an old bulldozer with rusted up rings and a very low compression.... The nett result was about 2000 cu M of combustible and volatile gas in the sump...(well that's what it looked like from the flash when it fired past a piston eventually).... We never did find the entire cast iron sump... Most of it turned to gravel and embedded itself in the ground, some embedded itself into the chains and sprockets, some embedded itself into the barn walls and one or two farm animals got quite a scare... Nobody killed or even injured thank goodness... Interesting thing though, found the dipstick stuck into a rafter some days later.... Was quite spectacular.... Somehow, the silly arse who did it, survived many years still after that.... Come to think of it, the farmer asked me some months later whether I knew what happened to the old cat(feline) that used to live in the barn.....disappeared around the same time as the bang....

Overall lesson: It could have been way, way worse.... Check the Rod and Piston plus crank for damage before you rebuild the cyl....

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

38ac

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 01:00:57 PM »
Because I install sleeves in my shop I can give you some insight. Welding the bore without sleeveing  inst going to work for a couple reasons. One being the entire bore will be distorted the welding process, the second being the weld metal will not be the same as the original. It wont work, I would not do it if somebody demanded it done.  Repair  sleeves must be a tight press fit in the cylinder for two reasons, one is to retain it, the other is so it will transfer the heat to the outside. The sleeve O.D. is actually .002.-.003 larger than the cylinder. The I. D. of the sleeve is rough sized as it changes when pressed in, you finish bore them and hone after they are installed. Take a guess what is going to happen to that crack when you press a sleeve in that cylinder?? Saving that cylinder is iffy but if a customer insisted  would first weld the crack, the bore the cylinder for a sleeve but wit no guaranties, you wanted it done, here it is.  If you decide to have this done be sure your machinist understands that the work MUST be done with the cylinder clamped between torque plates which he will also have to make unless he has machined an 165 cylinder previously. So, unless your machinist works for the fun of it it would be both cheaper and a much better fix to get on Alibaba and source a replacement cylinder. There is a guy over on the sister site that has made contacts over there of the water cooled version of the 165.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 02:42:09 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

listard-jp2

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 02:13:27 PM »
/\ Like he said, the easiest and quickest solution will be to fit a new cylinder barrel. Whilst your at it, why not get a complete piston assembly, connecting rod, and a set of big end shells as a minimum. As all these items could have suffered damage which may not be visible to the naked eye. Also why not get a few other spares such as fuel pump, injector, and gasket set etc, even then it would still be cheaper than having your existing barrel reconditioned. As a final bonus you would then not always have that nagging doubt in the back of your mind if this repair would hold up.

As a final bonus you could then, always keep the gash cylinder barrel as a memento, to remind you of this incident :laugh:

This tale of woe kind of reminds me of an episode back in my plant fitter days as follows:

At a location where temporary traffic lights were in use on a long term road widening scheme, the mobile plant fitter kept getting call outs in the middle of the night to replace defective traffic light sets, that kept having mysterious electrical faults such as all the bulbs blown, timer relays failing, etc.
The cause of these continual failures eventually became apparent, it was the after pub closing time sport for the local hooligan population to spray a can of ether into the air inlet of the running engine just to see how much it could take before the engine blew up. Those Petter AA1 engines sure were tough little engines [possibly because of the over square bore / stroke ratio], the problems were always electrical in nature due to the dramatic increase in engine speed and hence the increase in voltage above the normal 110v DC.



veggie

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 01:59:13 AM »
 Glort,

I have a little 165 air cooled unit like yours. Unfortunately I think you are pooched when it comes to a repair.
If you can find a liner, the cost of parts + machine shop labor +  freight will probably exceed the cost of a new engine.
As you and I know, a whole new cylinder/liner assy cannot be purchased because our cylinders are integrally cast with the crankcase.
Hard luck mate.

Veggie
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)

38ac

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »
We try ;)   
I have a similar one in my collection that also needs bore repairs it is an air cooled 165 that came into Canda as a "Peri" diesel. Mine hast he cylinder at a 45 degree angle and the bore and stroke are oddball from other 165s as far as I can tell. It's pretty far back on the "one of these days"  list of things to do.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

veggie

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 02:37:00 PM »
Glort,

I pulled my little air cooled diesel off the shelf and poked around.
You are right ! The cylinder in this unit is removable. I did not notice this before because the paint covers the joint so nicely at the base of the cylinder and is hardly visible when the air cowling is installed. Thats good news for you. And the prices you found are just fine too. ;)

Regarding the import of a few engines, ... I did that several years ago. I brought in various Changfa style units ranging in size from these air cooled 165's up to the larger R195 water cooled jobs. A total of 15. They all sold without much trouble. Mostly to people like us who wanted to make their own power for emergency or off grid use.
I met a lot of like minded people through that project.

Veggie
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)

buickanddeere

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Re: Repairing a cracked Cylinder.
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 03:15:05 PM »
If it is a one of a kind engine , drill a small hole at the bottom of the crack. Braze or bronze the crack . Machine cylinder for a dry liner .