New listeroid! What do I put in a rebuild kit?

[firefly]

I am new to listeroids and I have recently bought a Power Line brand engine ( I think it is old stock from Oldstylelisters) but it is manufactured by Anand.

The engine looks nice, fairly good paint; cast parts look good though not without minor flaws. But I have started to notice some things are not quite so nice. For example my intake tappet will not rotate. I removed the tappet guide by hand pressure only (is this normal?) and the finish was poor with tool marks big enough you could feel with a finger nail. I chucked it up in my lathe and was disapointed to see that the face was not square at all but was about .013 off. This seems like allot but it explains why the tappet was not rotating.
I have also noticed allot of rust on the inside of the engine... The idea of water getting through the three layers of plastic wrap and into the engine was surprising to me so maybe this happened before it was crated and shipped??? I don't see rust on the bearing surfaces but more on the surface of the governor and cam gears (not on the teeth).

Some picks are available at www.griffinslab.com/listeroid  I am just starting this site but I will try to chronicle all my work on the listeroid gen.

Here is my question:
What parts are prone to failure? What should I buy for a rebuild/maintenance kit? I am preparing an order of parts and I want to make sure I get everything I need. Gaskets, idler gear, valve guides, tappets, bushings, rings, injector lines...
I am planning to order common rebuild and maintenance items and rebuild parts but do I need an extra injector pump? Do I need an extra injector? What about TRBs, cam...

If I place an order from Anand does anyone else need anything in the South East?

Thanks

Firefly

[schoust]

  Thats is a very good question that I have asked also,I ended up with quite an assortment of spares,the price was right!!

[GuyFawkes]

http://www.griffinslab.com/listeroid/powerline.html

Stationery engine use?

gonna make paper with it?

[Halfnuts]

Hi Firefly.  Welcome to the world of heavy metal (mostly poor quality cast iron).

Was that one of the engines that OSL had on hand when they closed their sales out of the Southeast? 

That engine has some problems.  You've got some work to do if you intend to run that engine.   

First, a complete teardown is necessary to get rid of the casting sand in the sump and wherever else it has gotten to.  The oil pump will have already picked up some of it and squirted it into the bearings, so consider them history.  The tapered roller bearings (TRBs) are available from India, but you never know.  Get a set from a recognized company.  The Timken part number is 32211M90KM1.  There are others.  Any equivalent purchased in the US should be OK.

The rust looks pretty superficial but it's not a good thing and indicates the engine was left partially assembled out in the rain.  Your rings are probably shot.  I don't think condensation from your subtropical climate could do that.  And the way the cam lobes are contacting your tappet heads indicates it wasn't set up right in the beginning.  Your tappets will never rotate unless the lobes are off-center approximately the width of the cam lobe.  You need a new camshaft unless you can find someone who can do some brazing for you. 

If I were you, I'd order all the wear parts, i.e. rings, wrist pin, rod bearings, bushings, a gasket set, a spare head gasket and a camshaft.  And it wouldn't hurt to have a piston and cylinder sleeve in case you find they are badly rusted.  They shouldn't be very expensive, and a piston that size makes an impressive pencil cup for your desk until you need to use it.   

Think of it as a project.  Take your time and get a copy of the Utterpower CD http://www.utterpower.com/utterpower_cd.htm to study before you start and you can't lose.

Halfnuts 

[twombo]

Well.... ya got one!  Now roll up yur sleeves, devour George's CD, and dial in yur  big ole Hunk-o-arn in to a fine runnin  mechanical beast!!

Halfnuts offers some good advice.  Every minute you invest in getting right, will pay off in trouble free service!! Probably a lot more work than expense! Didja have anythng else planned? NAAAAAH!!

But... ya got one!!

mike

[titanium1927]

Hi Firefly,

The engines you have look like the real old style listers engines alright and should be ready to be put to work without taking them apart. Anand manufactures all of osl engines and come with the power line brand name. The intake/exhaust tappet not rotating on lister engines has been a real issue for many lister owners. I was lucky and received my engine with roller lifters so they do not rotate. The engines you have look to be older than mine so they haven’t been fitted with the new roller lifters. You know, I would not worry about the lifter turning. Use good synthetic engine oil and that tappet will last 1000’s of hours.

What parts are prone to failure?  Now that’s a good question. I have more than 10,000 running hours on my engine and nothing has failed to date, knock on wood. If I were to order replacement parts I would get an extra injector and head gasket, that’s it. Anything else would just be parts taking up space. Besides if you ever did need replacement parts Anand will air mail them to you.

Everything man made in this world has faults. The more you look the more you will find. Enjoy your new engine by putting it work. I did and it runs great. No worries. 

[firefly]

Thanks for the replies,

The tag on the front to the engine says it was manufactured for OSL but the guy I bought it from said that it was manufactured for him and that OSL had gotten a bad shipment or had run out, so they were buying engines from him.
I did not see the tag until I had bought the engine and got it home so I don't know what the truth is.

I have cleaned up most of the rust and decided to machine the tappet. It was .013 off from square so I trued it, polished it and now it rotates (about 2/3 revolution every time it lifts). The tappet guide was stuck in the paint but I removed it just using my hand so it may be a little loose. Currently it is not leaking oil so I guess it is ok.

I did not find sand in the sump but I did find little bits of green paint and a few metal chips. The oil was very black (smelled terribly) and I was not able to tell if the contaminants came from my engine or another (bet they didn't filter it between runs)

Are these engines really that durable? I have heard of a couple of idler gear failures but those seemed limited to just a few engines. Has anyone had any problems with the injector pump?
Thanks Halfnuts for your advice that sounds like the direction I was planning to go.

I am surprised that more people haven't found extra parts necessary. I know the listers are supposed to run forever but I thought there would be a list of parts people just wanted to keep on hand.

Firefly

[albany dbd]

hello   yes i think there pretty reliable. i have ran mine 24 hours a day for weeks just shutting down long enough to change the oil. i have a power solutions 10-1 i didnt do a thing when i got it other then built a skid and mount the gen head. about 6500 hours nothing to write about. i also burn used motor oil and what ever else i get from a few shops i pick up from.   you can spend alot of time looking and clean and wondering or you can put it through real world trials and fix things as they wear. thats how even the big boys do it. good luck.

[hotater]

Firefly---

The FIRST thing to do is get George's CD on Listeroid Longivity.  THAT'S the best 'spare part' you can buy.

THen, starting at the top and working downward and only speaking from my own experience with a dirty engine,
http://www.utterpower.com/jack_belk.htm
Be sure to check out the photo album of over a hundred pictures of every stage of re-working an engine that's likely to about the same as your's...

Parts--
Rocker arm bushings               (2)
Fuel injector rebuild kit             (1)
Valve guides                            (2)    rebuild the old ones with bronze bushings
Valves                                        (1)
Intake and exhaust gaskets       (6@)
Headgaskets                            (6)
Piston Rings                             (2 sets)
Wrist pin and rod bushing          (1 @)
deck spacer gaskets                   (1 set)
Fuel pump rebuild kit                   (1)
camshaft end bushings                 (1 @)
main bearing shells                      (2 sets)
inspection door gaskets                 (several)  This gasket should be soaked with RTV and let dry.

Tools and stuff---

utterpower governor kit
utterpower CD

ya'll add in whatever I forgot.    

Titanium--  I'd like to see pictures of your engine that's run 10K hours without breaking something....and I'll have a bunch of questions, too.   Welcome

[cujet]

I purchased GTC engines, which Atul Patel (Annand) claims to have manufactured. They all looked exactly like yours. It took some effort to fix the problems with the engines. But we have 2 of the 3 running right now. And they run pretty darn well.

You will probably be able to get away with just cleaning the rust and running it. Be careful of the casting sand issue. It looks like a lumpy section of cast iron. But if you dig at it hard enough, it comes loose.

The spares are cheap, so stock up.

As for the source of the rust, It is my guess that water gets by the head gaskets (they do not seal water all that well) and fills the head stud voids. Then the water works it's way into the crankcase throught the threads in the bottom of the stud. Just a guess. Mine were loaded with rust also. So I made sure to clean and seal the head studs.

I do think that once properly set up, these engines can be very reliable. However there are plenty of "gotcha's" with these engines also.

Chris

[Doug]

I took your advice and ordered two of everything Chris in some cases three...

I hope it gets here soon

DOug

[titanium1927]

Firefly,

I have been reading this forum for some time now and I feel very confident in saying that the engines you have are osl engines and are built using very high quality parts, plus extra steps taken in the machining process for closer tolerances. That’s one reason your tappet guide was removable by hand. I do not want to sound like a salesman but, osl engines are special made regardless of who sold it to you.

Try emailing Anand and let them know that you have an engine from osl that you just picked it up. From my dealings with osl I believe that your engine or engines are still under warranty if a part should fail. Good luck! 

[rocket]

i think most people here have already figured titanium is a shill... osl instead of operating in an honorable manner and just posting in the marketplace section is once again trying to promote himself in a dishonest manner.. nothing new and very transparent.

[titanium1927]

Hotater,

That’s a lot of parts! Ouch! 

[JohnF13]

For those of us who are "hard core" off-griders, Hotater's spares list is just the beginning.....I keep in an extra complete camshaft, cylinder heads, pistons, sleeves and all bearings.  If it moves, I have a spare in stock or one is on the way in.   

I'd rather have something and not need it than need it and not have it - happened to me once, a Vidhata 12/2 broke the camshaft, I had to wait 4 weeks to get one flown in.  Talk about learining the hard way!