The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications

[EdDee]

Hey guys,

Another small update on what's happening with the green monster.... Since new gasket is installed with the higher c ratio, lots less smoke when running a 30w or so fuel. I think I have discovered what was causing intermittent smoking and carboning over the last little while and thought it might be worth the mention...

When I process fuel, I feed it into a 200l holding drum, drawing off the bottom quarter or so. Up until recently, I found this to work quite well. Now however, it seems with the warmer weather we are having, there is some heavier oil settling to the bottom. When filling of late, this heavier oil(estimated at 45w plus) has  been causing a bit of a problem... knock it down with a 4 or up to even 8 to 1 dino mix and it runs way awesome....

I have also now installed an auto switch over for the mains. It consists of one contactor powered directly by the generator, disengaging a second contactor powered by the mains. It works quite well, so much so that when the gen head stopped working today(more on that later), the switch back to utility power wasn't even noticed... not even by a ps3 that was online downloading some rather large game update... There is one small problem that I have to overcome the contactor on the mains side is a  bit like me... slow, old and lazy... it, on the odd occasion, takes a spilt second too long to drop out and causes the gen head to go head to head with the mains... No biggie, but I don't like it as it trips the trip switch on the panel... I will have to get a better contactor or try and sort out some form of delay without using a "bought" one... No matter... I will find a way.... suggestions welcomed!

The gen head finally tossed its cookies, there is one wire on the ac brushes that had chafed through to earth and welded itself there... No matter, I just swopped the L and N lines over as a temp measure to keep going(N and E are linked in the panels anyway), well .... eventually it went open circuit today...  The faulty wire was snipped off and a bypass wire installed externally.... Working better than ever, looks like this new "temp" fix might just end up to be a permanent one...

They say that bad luck comes in threes, well, I had my set today... first the contactor laziness, then the busted brush wire, and finally a broken wire on the cooling fan... Luckily I installed a temprorary temperature controller on the head outlet yesterday... my mission is to control and vary coolant temperatures by adjusting when the fan comes on to minimise or try to, control head temps a bit to get the cleanest burn on varying fuels.... well, it looks like the temp controller might just become semi permanent once the temp experiments are done, it will be wired to an over temp siren to let me know when and if things go awry....


One good thing did come of it though... I established that there is more than enough cooling sans fan to keep the heat down if the engine is running unloaded as it did for quite a while today.... No Gen, means no cooling fan and no instrumentation working either.... The radiator is thermo syphon, so that won't fail....

Anyways, again I ramble on,,,,

Keep it spinning...

Regds
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Thob,

I measured all clearances with the head stripped... My gasket was factored in at its measured thickness... the gasket is made of aluminium sheet cut by laser... effectively the compression on gasket such as this is virtually zero... it is soft enough to seal if your head is nice and flat and if there is sufficient step on the cylinder rim... with a smooth rim of course.. The pain in the butt is building up the lower surface of the gasket with silicon ridges to seal the waterways because of the cylinder step.... the top surface gets a much finer layer of silicon for the same reason... I have had reasonably good luck with similar gaskets before... let's hope this will be one of the cases too!

Regds
Ed

PS... Well spotted Thob! I overlooked that with my messing about! You are perfectly correct! The final squish clearance for the head is supposed to be measured with the gasket in place, head torqued down. My volumetric measurements do conclude that the compression ratio is in spec though... I don't think that the bit of extra clearance will make a major difference in the grand scheme of things on this engine... A too small squish would or could cause valve interference(which I checked with the CR on) ... my thinking is that as long as the squish is same or larger than factory spec, with a sufficient compression ratio, all should be good to roll.... Your thoughts? (The squish was measured with a depth mic at Tdc... I did not torque the block down, there was probably a small amount of block and base gasket sprinback around, but the bottom gasket is well compressed and undisturbed... Unlikely that there will be too much error there). Also, the original gasket mic'd out at 1.05 mm on the rim seal, the new one is only .35mm smaller... this equates to around 4 cc squish volume error...not a major difference in compression ratio....again, your input would be highly appreciated... u got a sharp eye!

[EdDee]

Hey Vdub,

It probs does make a difference, maybe the ash we are picking up with WMO is an aluminium oxide formed by the combustion of aluminium held in solution by the acidic oil... Anybody have access to a mass spectrometer perhaps.... Lol... I wish I did... would certainly take alot of guessing out of the equation.... come to think of it... Ali oxide is white... and highly abrasive.... makes you think....!

Regds
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey guys...

Right, the auto changeover switch is in and sorted.... Instead of a delayed start or similar being put on the coil of one contactor, I have interlocked two contractors and installed a control relay to prevent the chance of both contractors being in circuit simultaneously.... works like a charm....

If anybody wants a circuit to show how it hangs together, just shout.....

Next step is to install variable coolant temperature handling to see how it affects carbon buildup... Should be quite interesting....

Regds
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey guys,

Anybody still out there in ListerLand?

Another update... played around with the cooling system a bit and found some interesting and frustrating things out while I was at it...

If I run with no thermostat on the engine water outlet, temp hovers around the 75C mark and remains reasonably stable.. The top radiator thermo switch kicks in and out, but things remain relatively even... If I run solely on the bottom radiator thermo switch to control the fan, the temperature elevates to around the 90C mark under normal load, going up to approx 95C in a slow cycle... but remains relatively stable... As soon as a heavy load is imposed, the system gets close to overheating... around the 99C mark and the coolant starts to boil off... not an ideal situation... I am trying to stabilise my running temp under normal and heavy loads to around the 95C max mark(hoping to do this mechanically rather than by electronic means, from a reliability fail safe point of view).

I installed a 88C thermostat at or very near to the head flange. In it I have drilled a couple of 3mm bypass holes to try and stop temperature cycling... It hasn't helped one bit.... the temp cycles from 65 to 85C ad nauseum..... particularly when the load drops away... BUT... before I go and drill my new thermostat like a piece of Swiss cheese ... I have an idea, and if anybody has tried this, I would really appreciate some feedback....

My idea is as follows... install a reduced T piece in the top and bottom lines of the coolant system alongside and parallel with the cylinder block and before the thermostat. This will make for a small external cycling channel that will have its own thermal loop to warm up the cylinder and thermostat hot side without trapping heat in the head exclusively.... The answers I don't know are: Will it stop the temperature cycling, or at least even it out a bit?, Will it interfere with the thermo syphon system as a whole? Will it create world peace, love and harmony?  Who knows.... if you have tried it and have the answer, chime in please and let me know what you found!

Keep it spinning.....

Regds
Ed

[Tom]

BTDT, the coolant on my generator is used in a hydronic loop in the floors of our home. I found that in addition to the thermostat a valve is needed in the lower hose. Slowly keep turning it down while underload until the cycling stops. I did this once and now she's rock steady under all conditions. There is a 1/8" hole in the thermostat.

[EdDee]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the info - Much appreciated!!

If I might ask, What is your average return line temperature variance into the engine? Over here, it will vary between probably slightly less than 30 and probably just over 70C I reckon... With that sort of large temp range in the offing, I am anticipating problems with accurate head temp control on my side...

Regds
Ed

[32 coupe]

Tank or radiator ?

I'd try a new stat with one 1/8" hole placed to the top position.

195 seems to be about correct.

They can take a while to warm up even under load.

I'll amble off for now,

Gary

[Tom]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the info - Much appreciated!!

If I might ask, What is your average return line temperature variance into the engine? Over here, it will vary between probably slightly less than 30 and probably just over 70C I reckon... With that sort of large temp range in the offing, I am anticipating problems with accurate head temp control on my side...

Regds
Ed

My return temps are all over the map too. When warmed up the return is around 90f. When running on just the cold tank it can start at 40f and a hot tank it can be over 100f.

[mike90045]

Hey Tom,
Thanks for the info - Much appreciated!!
If I might ask, What is your average return line temperature variance into the engine? Over here, it will vary between probably slightly less than 30 and probably just over 70C I reckon... With that sort of large temp range in the offing, I am anticipating problems with accurate head temp control on my side...
Regds  Ed 

Tom set my coolant loop up too.  I have about a 25 gal salvaged gas tank as a coolant tank, and from cold start (40F) takes about 90 minutes to get the return line warmed up over 120F  Then the lower end (crankcase) finally gets the frost thawed off it, but in cold weather, I've never see it get over 100F  (using harbor freight IR Thermometer)

[EdDee]

Hey Mike,

Thanx for the info!

I take it you will be somewhere around 195F on the head outlet and around 100F on the block inlet - Delta 95F or so....

I have been running the last couple of days on a semi-boil system with radiator cooling - My block inlet is around the 80C and the outlet is around 101C - that equates to about Delta 20C - in F that comes down to 176F in with 213F out - I would like it a wee bit lower on the output, but there is no steam venting into the header bottle on the radiator, just an alarming increase in visible level as a slug of steam forms, then circulates out of the head and condenses... The level returns to original in short order.... The fan is way capable of holding the temp in the system down, it runs for about 15sec every 2 mins or so and then shuts down(That's around a 12.5% duty cycle).... I am using a temp switch in the lower apron of the radiator to monitor and turn on the fan, which is line with about in the lower half of the radiator core... Current day temp is in the high 20'sC, hence the reason for wanting to get a little more leeway to allow for the really hot days(for here anyway) when it can get up to an ambient of 35-38C - When one of those days arrives, I will have to go back to the top radiator temp switch because the entire system will be pushed well above boiling point I reckon....

What I have found with this higher running temp, is a far clearer exhaust gas ... this to me anyway, means less sooty carbon and exhaust buildup.... Also probably a better conversion efficiency, but this i think would be relatively minimal and difficult to gauge over a short period..... The more learned gents-please feel free to correct me if I am going astray....

While on efficiency et al.... Has anybody grabbed a bit of heat from the CS Plug to warm up the last inch or so of fuel line before the injector by using, lets say, a piece of flat brass or copper bar bolted to the CS plug and wicking the lost heat via contact into the injector line... It looks pretty simple to accomplish, just don't know how much benefit it would be.... (Sound of drawer being opened, shouts of glee, and a 50x10x300mm brass bar being brandished aloft.... Eyes drop back to screen and reply anxiously awaited....Lol)

Enough of my BS.... Time to go play!!

Regds
Ed

[Tom]

I've seen COV plugs used as oil preheaters. It was reported to work well.

[EdDee]

Hey Gary and Tom,

Sorry, in my haste to go play I missed your replies...

Gary, I think I have sufficient in the line of bleed holes, the problem is my cooling system is a bit too efficient if I run it on the top temp switch... on the bottom switch, it is just not quite enough cooling to allow any leeway...  Warmup is quite quick, I estimate 15 min or thereabouts to get the fan cycling on and off on the top switch...that is without the stat installed and the motor running around the 80C on the outlet...

Possibly I must reduce cooling efficiency a bit, there are a few ways I could do it, one is by partially isolating the temp switch with a buffer material to dissipate a bit of heat before the switch... that shouldn't be too difficult to do, even make it marginally adjustable to fine tune it a bit... add a few cooling fins and that might do the trick with an adjustable shroud over them to fine tune... the advantage of doing it that way, is that the fins would dissipate more heat in colder weather, less in warmer, causing the switch to either come in sooner or later temperature wise.... almost self regulating depending on the ambient temperature... interesting thought... defs worth a try I reckon, and very easy to do....

If I can lose the thermostat, put a piece of ali bar in its place to do similar work, less moving bits and things to fail...

Tom: I am not too wild about a large temp differential over the length of the cylinder... I know it is accepted, but I am interested in keeping the top half of the motor as warm as I can, but below 100C... less condensation, less oil fouling, less heat loss during combustion... Just a thought...

If I can come right with my "solid state" temperature tuner on the top temperature switch on the radiator, it might just be something that others can find handy... and keep the top half of the Beastie warm and snug as well...

Again I ramble on... please tell me to shut up!

Kelp it spinning...

Regds
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the reply re the CS plug heat scavenging ... I am really keen to give it a go and see if it clarifies the burning a wee bit more... As hard as I have been on this beast in the last few months, I am constantly amazed, on a daily basis, that she starts up and runs! Yes, she is getting a bit tardy on the morning wind up, yes, she uses a bit of oil on a daily basis, but when I equate the workload that has been put through her so far, I can give her a bit of leeway I reckon.... (and that with the crappiest fuel I could possibly find!)

Regds
Ed

[buickanddeere]

Eddy. Is there any way to incorporate a small electric pump . To act as the recirculating like or port in most forced circulation cooling engines ?
 Is there a way to reduce the cooling area or efficiency of the rad/fan? To raise the temperature of the coolant leaving the radiator ?