Puppeteer

Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 235912 times)

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2015, 10:37:08 PM »
I used the image button, possibly messed it up.... Maybe my images are too large perhaps...

Trying the hyperlink button instead:

http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/IMAG0486.jpg

Are you able to access the images?







« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 10:52:23 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
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tiger

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2015, 02:13:17 AM »
I was able to get it , faster too.
Metro 12/2 ST 10 KW

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2015, 10:01:48 AM »
Thanks for the test.. much appreciated!
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2015, 11:00:13 AM »
OK, so a wee bit of report back on how things are going with the state of how things currently stand...

Yesterday I changed the oil in the sump... looked good, with a small amount of sludge, maybe about 20ml of condensate water in the lowest reaches.. not bad at all considering the amount of water I am putting through it... comments please.

I found the strainer on the pump inlet was FUBAR... I have replaced it with a strainer of finer mesh and much larger size... it just fits into the apron and lies about 20mm below the weir... it should give me a much better filtering of the pickup oil and due to its vastly larger surface area, a good margin of safety between oil changes... comments please.

I ran the engine for about 2 hrs pre changing the oil, it was up to normal temp before dumping the oil, I noticed that the bottom end was much cooler than the top (obviously) but the bottom end was just slightly warmer than a comfortable hand heat for me, probs around 60 C or  so, a bit low I would reckon... Comments please.

While draining the oil, I made a decent dipstick assy for the apron, as mine had none, only the weir dipstick. It was made from an old Ford dipstick, some hydraulic pipe that fitted, a hydraulic elbow and a bit of creative machining... to drop the oil in the future, all I need do is remove the dipstick tube and spin the elbow 180 deg to drop into a catch tray without drooling it over the front of the sump like it used to.... Anybody wanting a pic of the mod, let me know.

I installed a magnet on the front of the apron at last oil change, this picked up less than 1/2cc of very fine metal dust, I reckon that is reasonable for a 500 hr interval... comments?

I also retarded the timing 2 flats on the timing tappet, she has got a bit knocky lately, much improved now... any idea how many degrees that is approwimately?

Here's a kicker... after the oil change I sat around listening and looking the motor over while it did the first post service run. I noticed some bubbles coming up into the radiator overflow bottle, a problem that initially reared its head just after I put it into service, the problem was sorted after I retorqued the head first time round. I checked and pulled the head down a little more, but this time with no difference. I reckon its finally time to pull the lid off and put a new head gasket in. I am considering replacing the gasket with a copper one, this one looks like a 3 piece composite from the one piece I can see. Its about 1100 hours in, so I reckon its a fairly reasonable lifespan. One of the major motivations for going to a mono copper gasket is the absolutely cr@p after sales service of the supplier I got this engine from. I can get a copper one laser cut in way less than the 3 months it has been for the supplier to not come back to me about some queries I sent him... Alternatively, do any of ye learned lads out there know of or have a gasket to spare to a 12/1 Opex 1000rpm idi engine? (Not having had the lid off, I can't say whether its sleeved or not) .... Comments please.

I can finally say that my 220v motor friction starter mod is successful, anybody wanting pics of it, I will take some and post them here, its still unpainted and looking scrappy, the idea was to install, test, debug and finish... well, so much for painting it, I really like and use it, so much so, that I don't even want to take it off to paint it!

Still running fuel oil around the 40w mark... Warm weather so I don't even preheat it, a little smoke now and then, 12 or more hours a day runtime! (Uses about 15l a day of fuel)...

Enough of my rambling, time to get some trigger time in I reckon.... Always find it relaxing, almost as good as tinkering with big, smelly, oily, green engines!

Regds
Ed



« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 11:03:26 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

carlb23

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2015, 02:57:29 PM »
I have bought gaskets from John @ gaskets to go a few times and they have always been of high quality and worked well.   Here is a link to his US ebay site that is run by his sister.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lister-CS-Pattern-Head-Gasket-6-1-8-1-etc-/331683702686?hash=item4d39e3a79e:g:qa8AAOxyHIlTXnNR&vxp=mtr

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2015, 09:29:45 PM »
Thank for the lead Carl, doesn't look like I will fit though... by the looks of it, my bore  DIA is 127mm...

 I eventually found the bore and specs on my engine, they can b found here:

http://www.omarx.in/opex/diesel-engines05.htm

Or maybe even here:

http://www.adendorff.co.za/ProductDetails/Diesel-Engines/DIESEL-ENGINE-OML-12-(LISTER-TYPE)/889

Incidentally, there is a downloadable "manual" on the Adendorff site..

Tia
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

carlb23

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2015, 11:31:51 AM »
if you contact john at Gaskets to go he can make up just about any gasket as i recall

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2015, 03:35:00 PM »
Thanks Carl,

But, can u believe it.... I found the weak link in my supply chain, its the local suppliers who brought the engine down for me... I called them, on the off chance that they carried spares for the unit, or, at the very least, could source or direct me to a source for the spares. I stressed that it was "Urgent" and the response was positive - "We will call you right back" ..... Well, a working day later, no reply, not even a "We cant get it" or a "We are waiting for the importers" type of call.... What a bunch of !@#$$@... So I did some digging!! I found the importer had a spares section, one quick call later I had the price and the availability of the of the bits I needed in a hurry.... ZAR475.00 per head gasket(That equates to about USD34.5 or so), they have 2 ready for me, just waiting for them to acknowledge proof of deposit and i can send the couriers...

I have also asked them to compile a quote for the running on site spares I think I am going to need to keep this beastie turning over... Injector/FP Element, gaskets, rings, TRB's and big end bearings amongst other things....

Plus, if I can get some, another 2 full size flywheels to stick on the turny-bits to smooth out pulsing... I am looking at down-rating the speed a bit more to burn the really heavy fuel oils I can get (With Injection pump/duration/Injector and timing mods of course.) With a bit of luck, Old grease and peanut butter will be on the menu soon...LOL...

I wonder if these local yokels realise the turnover they are going to lose out on... Here I was thinking to myself: "Keep the business local, its benefits the local environment" ....Not that I am going to spend a million, but every bit helps!!

It looks like its the good old adage at work: "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know."

Regds
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

mike90045

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2015, 10:07:44 PM »
be careful the air surges in the crankcase don't launch your press in dipstick.  The flapper vent is supposed to prevent that .......

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2015, 10:01:01 AM »
Hi Mike,

The crankcase pressure surges have been taken care of - I wasn't happy with the flappy disky thingy because of corrosion and lack of sealing on the "vacuum" stroke (as well as the problem of not being able to fill the oil on my beast without removing umpteen dangly bits) so I employed a bit of reverse engineering....

Reverse in a loose term...LOL... I found an old brass vacuum breaker from a household pressure geyser/water boiler and with a little careful lathery(highly technical term for machining on a lathe) I added one o-ring and turned the insides round so its now a one way vent out of the crankcase... It is 3/4" diameter so a small pedestal adapter was made to suit the existing mounting on the crank door... Voila... Instant vacuum breaker that can be unscrewed by hand and used as a fill point for crank oil too!

Amazing... I can pour 3L of oil into a 19mm hole in a stiff breeze and not spill a drop.... but... you guessed it... She still insists I lift the toilet seat....

Regds
Ed
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 10:02:33 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2015, 03:09:50 PM »
Heres another "What If?" scenario...

You start your beast and see bubbles coming out the radiator header tank..... There is a ring of scum around the top of the tank, the head gasket is obviously leaking into one of the water galleries... Now.... What if you continue to run the animal while waiting patiently for the new gasket to arrive?

You do of course, keep an eye on coolant and sump oil, but, the beastie is a critical part of your day to day running...... Its just not allowed to die!!

Lets hear some forecasts of possible damage that may happen....

Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

Tom

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2015, 05:06:20 PM »
I ran mine that way for years. It finally lost compression due to water leaking into the cylinder and rusting the walls. The problem with mine was that the lip the liner sits on in the cylinder block was not machined square to the surface. So if you want to keep running it and want to keep the liner perhaps the coolant should be drained after each run.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2015, 09:03:25 PM »
Point noted Tom, thanks for the heads up!

Draining evey evening does not seen to be necessary as yet, there is very little if any coolant lost in the overnight shutdown so far. In total, I would guess maybe less than 100ml consumed over the last 4-5 days. This coolant is high in glycol as well, probs in the region of a 25% water mix in it... Just enough water to take it from syrup to easily flowing .... This would probs help to combat corrosion to a small degree if it enters the cylinder I would think.... Your thoughts? (Also, the unit runs about 15 hrs a day at the mo... I really don't wanna run around at midnight to fill a jug of coolant, only to have some miscreant forget to replace it the following morning and run it up dry!)

The volume of gas getting into the coolant does seem to be increasing slightly... By my reckoning one of 2 things are happening... Either the top of the liner is starting to gas cut a groove, or the gasket is starting to break down further... It is probably the gasket breaking down I reckon, well I hope so anyway... I am not going to behead it until the new gasket arrives if I can at all help it.

If I lose compression badly, or if she starts blowing major coolant out of the header tank, I might have to crack the top end off and effect a temp fix .... There are numerous ways of doing a quick and dirty to keep going in a bind... Have you tried any perhaps?

Regds
Ed
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 09:42:10 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2015, 10:26:43 PM »
A point to ponder....

Energy stored in a flywheel is directly related to the mass of the flywheel... Double the mass and you double the stored energy... On my premises, I run numerous sensitive electronic bits and bobs... the smoother the ac, the longer they will last...fact. Like all lister type low speed gens, there is a mains flicker due to compression and ignition strokes, I was wondering if doubling up the flywheels has been tried before by any learned gents out there... My concern is whether the crank can handle the huge weight of double flywheels without detrimental bending moments taking their toll. A further benefit of the larger flywheel mass would be improved surge load capability and not to be forgotten, a better governing curve.... not to mention less wear and tear on the governor and IP with their associated linkages as well... and in all probability, possibly better bearing life in the big end department...(see how a racing motor with a cut and lightened flywheel hammers the big ends ...)

Some might say that to stabilise the system, increase the revs... this is true, because energy stored goes up by the square of the revs... ie double the revs and you store 4x the energy(roughly speaking you would only get 1/4 the flicker) .... but.... increase the revs and you start narrowing down on the types of fuel you can burn... more on that if you want my warped outlook on fuel types...I have some theories, probably wrong, but they have been working for me so far... So, rev increase will not work for me in this case...(just in case it blows my fuel theories.....)

This is one where the experts can surely advise...

As an aside, I am not in favour of weighting the gen rotor.... there are just too many gremlins that creep in on belt drive systems if this is done... its kind of akin to trying to drive a flywheel with a spring, fine for near constant torque like electric motors and the like, but not irregular torque of a single power stroke of 180 degrees out of every 720... harmonics show up and break things when you least expect it... very difficult to tune out, and very easy to run amuck... what works in one scenario more often than not fails completely in an identical, or almost identical other scenario...

Experience from the world-wise would be enormously appreciated!

Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2015, 04:18:52 PM »
Hey Guys...

Here are some pics of my rather scrappy, untidy, badly laid out, unpainted, work in progress, prime mover....

http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private

Please excuse the untidy bits, any help to finish it will be repaid with beers and a barbecue!!

Regds
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!