Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 211868 times)

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2015, 05:05:09 PM »
Lets see how long this one of mine lasts, I am going to continue running it as long as it runs...I should have over 1200 hrs on it by month end if it lives that long... Last check was around 1000 as we stand now... I run it about 12 to 15 hrs a day... Hold thumbs!

She was running a bit smokey earlier today, very light pale grey, pushing about 5kW while processing the fuel gunk, boosted the water intake for an hour or so and she is breathing cleanly again... (Probs ran upwards of 40 or 50L maybe more of water through the intake in 90 mins)

Maybe I am just one of the lucky ones - I make her work hard and long - she seems to like it!!

From my little experience so far, it seems as if these girls like a long hard run to keep ticking over - anything less than about 4hrs per session leads to oil fouling and the like, with the associated induced faults to go with it - My unit only "calms down" after about 1/2 an hour of running and gets to full grunt after about an hour.... Coolant temps are within working limits quite quickly, but the lower case is barely warm for the first while... go figure...
 ;)
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EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2015, 10:01:27 AM »
Ditto, ditto and yet ditto again....

Only one comment to add - In my experience with oils, from ATF, BRAKE, GEAR, HYDRAULIC, SUMP and DINO - all are capable of carrying a substantial amount of water while doing their job - The worst I have seen so far was when I drained the final box on my Komatsu bulldozer - 50 odd L or so of 30W - lovely brown colour - cooked it down by about 40% - yep - 40% of it was water held in suspension - got it past the chip fryer sound and popped it straight back in the box with 20L to top it off.

The last batch of fuel goop yielded about 5L suspended water in 60L of oils - it looks good when you put it in, but with a bit of heat, interesting things start to happen!

The final settling yielded about 500ml of water in the cool catch area of the cooker, it was drained off the bottom and was clear... We are fueling the old girl up to do the day's run as we speak... Lets see if she lasts the day!!

It is seems quite easy to see what blends you have in your recovered oil, albeit somewhat tedious - look for temperature plateaus while heating - lighter distillates will slow the temperature climbing as they boil off (you must be stirring it well for even heat distribution) - the most spectacular boil is round the 98 to 100C area when the water starts doing its thing (Best to add energy slowly around this temp) - Yesterday I kinda got involved with paperwork and telecalls while the main heaters were on, got to the cooker about 30sec too slowly and found a very dirty fuel processing machine with a catch tray doing its job! Yep, the water started to flash off and helped some sump gunk out of the overflow vents....

Spill contained 100%, simply reprocess once recovered, life goes on!

Lol
E
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
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Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
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Tom

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2015, 10:54:19 PM »
Tell us about how you hear and process your oil. I'm being given about 200 gal of k1 so no nees fot more fuel here for a few years.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2015, 09:02:03 AM »
I keep it simple... heat it to around 95C or so, hold it there until it stabilises, bump it up slowly to 100, once water is boiled off I push it up to 110 and hold it there for a while... stirring continuously ..... shut down the stirrer and let it cool... when it gets below 100 I start filtering it thru a 5 mic filter by gravity, leaving the last 25% to 30% in the tank.... I don't filter from the bottom, but about a 1/4 way up... once fully cooled any settled crap is drained off the bottom and the tank is filled for the next run.. I pump heat in via 2 elements, one of 4 or so kw, the other is 1.5 kw... both on for fast, big one only for slow, and small for holding and very slow heat up.. they are normal hot water elements, but the smaller is for hard water, so it has a lower heat density... total vol oil processed is about 70 L a batch or thereabouts..

Once all cooled and filtered, I adjust visco to about 25/35 and throw it in the tank.... usually use dino to adjust, RUG gives a bit of a knock ....

While heating, I am sure that the small percentage of RUG etc in the gunk is boiled off... these are quite minimal, hardly any odour too, and by the looks of it are not worth condensing for use as a dilutant later...

That's about it...

If you spot any things in my method that I have missed, let me know!

Regds
Ed

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2015, 09:28:05 AM »
In the spirit of "Lets see what we can get away with" - I pushed the boundaries a little too far!!

I filled up the WMO tank with pure, unthinned, but filtered and de-watered recovered sump oil - A mix of nasties that could quite easily be used as printer ink - The thickness was around the 40 to 45W mark, possibly a bit thicker even (fed into the injector at day temps around 25C) - The engine was already warmed up and I was pulling around 5 to 6kW electrical from it - I had the unit processing the next bunch of gunk - All went well......Until..... the load from the fuel processor dropped away, the fuel processing unit was at temperature.... it ran for maybe about an hour with no load and started to wet stack and blow smoke from the temps dropping away in the combustion chamber... No prob, I thought, a drop of water will sort this out when its up to load....

I re-loaded the genhead and started a heavy water injection cycle going(about 500  to 750ml water per minute for 15 mins or so) ... It helped, definitely, but did not clear the injector tip fully... I ran the rest of the afternoon and evening with the dirty injector (didn't feel like stripping it down so late in the day) and matters did not get any worse, nor better.

This morning I quickly pulled the injector and brushed the carbon off the tip - started on WMO from cold and there was mild smoke, a very pale grey, you had to look carefully to see it. I switched to Dino for a few mins to warm up and then back to WMO... Smoke gone!

This WMO is so thick, you can almost remove the fuel line from the pump and it only just flows through the filter... A handy trick - use a long, maybe 4ft heavy rubber fuel hose from the tank (1/4" ID) - the pump can scavenge the line and syphon the fuel in pulses, the line collapses slightly and then the filter catches up..

I also am naughty with the injector return line.... but that's another story....

So... to sum it up.... thick oil=high load only..... max it out to 30W fuel at 20C average for varying loads and it will keep spinning!! (With water of course!!)

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2015, 08:57:13 PM »
Glort: I run heavy loads of water through the engine regularly, but keep an eye on the lube oil for emulsification. The exhaust blows plenty of steam, up to the point of water droplets being blown out...it gets quite messy when I give it a major flush out. The trick is to feed water in to the point that the rack maxes out as you do it... if revs start to fall away, back off the water slightly and hold it like that for half a min or so at a time... look out for cooling the chamber too much .... it will suddenly start passing lots of water out of the stack if you do. If this happens, shut the water downed for 5 mins or so to get the temps up and then repeat as you feel necessary...  Light doses of water on a continuous basis holds carbon down quite a bit, but every now and then a hard run on dino pee with a heavy water feed when the temps are up really seems to clean things out quite well. Water / steam cleaning the innards helps plenty, but often will not clean the tip of a badly fouled injector... it needs a good injection pattern to do its work, or so it seems to me. Point in case being this a.m. when I cleaned the injector manually before the days run. Once cleaned, I started her on wmo saw she was a bit sooty, swopped to dinopee for a few min, then back to wmo for the day.. I refilled the tank with the 43W goop and she has been running fine all day, but a little grey smoke with an oily whiff on and off... I am going back to 30w tomorrow and will advise how it turns out.

Regds
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
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EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2015, 09:38:53 PM »
Glort, I like your drying method, but it doesn't work for me here in Za... the Rh was around 90% today, so chip fryer method is about all I can do until I make a fuge.... good thing is, I get lots a heat into the exhaust so extra hot showers in the eve... lol... For a stirring pump, I found an old lathe coolant pump... its perfect, I could probs stir lead with it because the impeller is not in contact with the volute at all... it is a long shaft too, so the motor is far enough away from 120c to survive... I also circulate the air, but by convection... try it... just put a 3ft chimney in place of the fan for when u heat the oil, it draws quite nicely, but not too much either, so u lose less heat... fans work best when sucking air out, rather than blowing air into a vessel, hence your improved drying... try blowing air thru a radiator to see the cooling difference compared to sucking it thru....

I only filter once, on the way out of the tank... this is thru a std 1191A fuel cartridge, but I do go thru a strainer first inside the tank and over a solids trap on the way... This is all done at as close to 100C that I can, at that temp, even 50W is about as thin as water... I process about 50 to 70 L at a time, so each batch runs me at least 3 days on average... 

Air circ  helps plenty with drying... I don't do it as a rule because of the hi rh around here and the chance of spillage because of the small processor I am using... Up to now, there has been very little residual moisture that I have picked up... Hopefully I am drying it enough! I am a firm believer in not using the absolutely last juice out the can... that last 200 ml or so is where the water hides ... try for yourself some time... throw the last 100 ml or so into a clear jar every time u fill the tank from a can... any missed moisture will show up! So far, I haven't had probs with damp fuel, but water dropping out of saturated fuel, has caused major shit.... And that was the only fuel I bought for the beast... Go figure... I think Herr Otto was sending me a message ;)

L8rs...
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

mike90045

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 07:38:34 AM »
Tell us about how you hear and process your oil. I'm being given about 200 gal of k1 so no nees fot more fuel here for a few years.

K1 - is that plain kerosene ?  do you need to add 2-stroke lube oil to it ?

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 10:01:51 AM »
Not familiar with K1 - Glort, please enlighten!
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
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Tom

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 07:39:37 PM »
Yes K1 is kerosene which is a bit lighter than diesel and has less lubricating properties. The plan is to buy 20 gal of B20 and mix that with it to keep the IP lubricated. It also comes with a nice 275 gal heating oil tank. My mom bought a new house and the oil heater is being changed to LP.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2015, 09:45:19 AM »
Earlier, I mentioned a naughty bit of engineering/plumbing for the injector return line - here it is:

I have 2 tanks on the rattler, one of about 30L and the other is the original head mounted unit. I have kept the original in place and installed a + shaped fitting with a ball valve on the L & R arms - the top goes to the injector return line, the bottom goes to the IP...

Advantages: Remove the LHS Pipe to the ball valve coming from the external tank and the tank can be removed while the clunker is spinning... Same applies to the RHS onboard tank.

To bleed the tank lines, simply loosen the IP return line and the air is let out (The + fitting is about level with the IP, so the return line is the highest point in the line on the motor, but below the tank levels.)

To fill the onboard tank is easy, simply open both valves with or without the beast chugging and the big tank (higher than the onboard) backfills through the filter....(this also has the advantage of back flushing the onboard original filter to the tank too...gunk can be bottom syphoned out of it if needed)

The remote, big tank, also has a 7mic absolute filter on it.....

I often, particularly on my refining setup, backwash the filters with already filtered fuel - initially I was replacing a filter on the refiner every 150L or so, now, 500L later, the same filter is still up to spec and doing its job....

Disadvantages: A air leak will be hard to find - keep all piping below the level of your tanks so no negative pressure in the lines is the norm...Its easier to spot a drip than to listen for a joint sucking air!

The weather has been warm here for the past few days, about 25C or so, I have put about 100L of unthinned 40-50W fuel through the green machine with no major ill effects noted barring a slightly harder start up and one bit of injector carbon from running unloaded for an hour...

Hold thumbs - Just past the 1100hr mark now and the next oil change is due!! (On that note - I have no lube oil thinning because of the heavy fuel I am running...Bonus!)

 
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2015, 04:24:17 PM »
Hmmmmm... Amazing how guestimations can be wrong!! Just did a check on how much water I am pumping in to do a heavy decarbon - Measured out at 1L per 3 minutes, not what I guessed previously of over a litre per minute.... Sorry gents for the earlier misinformation!! (Bow, Scrape, Humble Eyes cast downward!)
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2015, 10:39:13 PM »
And as an indicator for normal operations, measured water flow at approximately 5L per hour for average running... the water is being drawn in as coarse droplets, under suction from the manifold, at an average temp of around 18C.... the water feed nozzle is 3mm diameter-

No water has been found in the oil as yet, but on cool days there is a small amount of condensate on the CC breather outlet...

Since the engine gets shut down late evening via a cable from the house, there is no dry running prior to shutting down in the evening... no evidence of corrosion present in the manifolds has been noted as yet...

Comments please ye learned fellows.....!

Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2015, 03:44:58 PM »

http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/IMAG0484.jpg
Inserted three images of fuel boiling plant..

http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/IMAG0485.jpg
I dont see them coming up at all...

http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/IMAG0486.jpg
I dont know if www.listerenginegallery.com is working, so used a link to my own www server....

Any help out there?

Regds
Ed
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 10:47:36 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
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dieselgman

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Re: What If I did this? (Otherwise known as "Breaking the Rules")
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2015, 04:28:19 PM »
Did you use the Insert Hyperlink button?

Once you use that button to insert the coding, then paste in the image URL - between the brackets.

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...