Update, Northern 2.9 Gen Head

[stevo42]

Much thanks to all you kind folks for steering me in the right direction.  My stand by system has worked flawlessly when needed. The balance problem was solved with a Square D, 3KVA 240/120v transformer.  My UPSs work fine, no flicker, all is well.  Now for step two. I have allot of homework to do on the subject but I have a question that I need to ask before I get going.  Is there any reason why I couldn't supply my six circuit transfer switch with power from solar panels via an inverter and batteries instead of a gen set, ie a transfer switch between solar and gen set.  If I could do that, the house could run off solar but grid could still power the big 240 loads.  At least by doing that I'd see a little reduction of the power bill and I'd get a little introduction to solar. By the time I get it set up maybe Tesla batteries will be a little cheaper. I'm just wondering if this plan is doable with the infrastructure I have. 

[mike90045]

The battery replacement every 5 years costs more than the saved electricity.

The best bet, is to install a Solar PV Grid-Tie array, that unwinds your meter when it's sunny.   But you have to get permits and electrical cert from the electric company first, and if your power is cheap, it's more than a 15 year payback.   But when the Power Wall comes out (the real one, not the BS they announced earlier this month) you will be all ready.

[dieselgman]

Isn't the normal solar setup using batteries and inverter? Solar array connects to inverter through charge controller and then inverter AC output can be routed to whatever household circuits you may choose? I have an old Trace SW system that connects both the genset inputs and the solar charge controller to the batteries via the Trace onboard battery charging electronics. Either or both can be active without any manual switching as far as I remember it. I am sure the more modern inverters have taken this and refined further.

dieselgman

[stevo42]

Mike, The five year battery replacement would be a deal breaker if the Tesla battery wasn't a possibility maybe before I have to replace the first round of lead acid batteries. You think they will be cheaper than what they announced?   Grid tie isn't an option

Dieselgman,  As I remember several years ago when checked into running inverter power through my existing wiring to the transfer switch, I was told it wouldn't work for some reason, something about the ground. My generator power feeds the transfer switch just fine but I cant remember the problem with inverter power. Maybe I'm having a senior moment.  I'm not committed to this idea, just investigating possibilities to get into a little solar.

[Tom]

Yup, modern inverters have a built in transfer switch. When it's been cloudy for a couple of days I just start the generator and the inverter let's it warm up a couple of min then switches the house over from inverter power to generater power (with out a glitch) and then starts to use the extra generator power to charge batteries.

[stevo42]

Tom, "built in transfer switch" things are looking up, It's been, probably at least ten years since I looked at solar power, I know prices have come way down. Does the idea of running the house on solar with Lister back up and using grid power for the big 240 loads sound too crazy?  I have a retired marine engineer neighbor thats helping me out for trades, I towed his tractor to the tractor doctor, things like that. He wired up the 3KVA transformer and checked everything out. I recently built a long (64x10) storage shed, (my motto being, never throw anything away that could possibly be useful in the future) with the shed roof slopping toward the south and not far from the generator room, perfect for some panels. So it seems I can hardly pass up, at least, taking a serious look at solar and I would save a couple bucks on the grid power bill.

[dieselgman]

What type of inverter system are you using Tom?

dieselgman

[Hugh Conway]

Stevo:

How big are your 240V loads? I run solar with a 6/1 listeroid for charging on cloudy days. My biggest 240V load is a 3/4 Hp deep well pump.
24V battery bank provides 120/240 via 4KW inverter........it all has been doing whatever is necessary.

Off grid is good!

Cheers,
Hugh

[mike90045]

Mike, The five year battery replacement would be a deal breaker if the Tesla battery wasn't a possibility maybe before I have to replace the first round of lead acid batteries. You think they will be cheaper than what they announced?   Grid tie isn't an option

Dieselgman,  As I remember several years ago when checked into running inverter power through my existing wiring to the transfer switch, I was told it wouldn't work for some reason, something about the ground. My generator power feeds the transfer switch just fine but I cant remember the problem with inverter power. Maybe I'm having a senior moment.  I'm not committed to this idea, just investigating possibilities to get into a little solar.

Don't hold your breath on the powerwall  LiNiMnCo (NMC)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerwall_%28Tesla%29

The daily cycle one, is NOT the same as the Model S car battery

The daily cycle 7 kWh battery uses nickel-manganese-cobalt chemistry[4] and can be cycled 5000 times.[4][5]

While 5,000 cycles pencils out to 13 years, in actual usage, Li batteries do not last that long, old age nails them about year 4-5.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/the_high_power_lithium_ion
 (Note that the NCM charges to 4.10V/cell, 100mV lower than cobalt and spinel. Charging this battery chemistry to 4.20V/cell would provide higher capacities but the cycle life would be cut short. Instead of the customary 800 cycles achieved in a laboratory environment, the cycle count would be reduced to about 300.)

[Tom]

What type of inverter system are you using Tom?

dieselgman

Outback vfx.

[stevo42]

Hugh, My well pump is 1/2 HP, 5 amp, 240v, which, in reality, is the only thing i really need. Cloths dryer is handy but not necessary same with a space heater here and there in winter.  My electric bill is only around $120 a mo so thats not a big deal.
 


Mike, Sounds like the Tesla power wall may not be the end all answer.  My daughter who works for the DOE in DC says the big energy Cos are seriously worried about losing income due to the power wall technology.  Call me crazy but I believe that "free/zero point energy" will eventually see the light of day.