A new Lister in the family...

[AdeV]

Last Friday, I was up at sparrowfart for the long (200 miles - I know that's peanuts to you Americans, but on our roads... that's a trek) drive down to Bath to go pick up my new toy. 4 hours down, 3 hours to pull it out of the boat it lived in & onto my transport, and 6 hours back (Friday night traffic...), another hour to offload, and here she is, nailed to a selection of railway sleepers, almost ready for a first run:

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

Yup, I finally have me a Lister JP4, aka 38/4. 38 horsepower, feel the width...

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

The engine was originally fitted to a Dutch barge. In this shot, we can see the genuine, original, Dutch diesel catch tank (for the injector overspill)...

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

The spec plate, showing this to be a 1940 engine.

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

Interestingly, it's been retrofitted with a 1963 JK flywheel - presumably to add the ring gear & electric starter motor. Originally, it must have been a hand-crank start, quite a task on such a big engine.

Lister JP4 by AdeV, on Flickr

The upside-down flywheel serial number reads 213JK4MP13 - it looks like the MP has been added in the wrong place (MP=Marine Propulsion), and should have been after the 13 (which, we assume, means 1963).

That's it on the photos for now; but, with a bit of a jerry-rigged fuel line, a couple of fresh batteries & a battery booster, I got her fired up Lots of smoke and noise, and she won't run on all four at low RPM, I suspect the fuel lines still need a little bleeding. Next job is to fit a radiator & associated pipework - and probably a waterpump as I don't have the enormous thermosiphoning radiator that this engine would normally sport - so I can run her for more than a brief period. Oh, and a more powerful governer spring than the lash up I added, which sets the "tickover" at about 100rpm I think...

Still - all in all, I am chuffed. This engine will easily run my entire workshop, and when I move out into the Portuguese sticks, it'll be my only access to 3-phase power.

[richardhula]

Quite a beast. Hope you have the missing COV or is it blanked off as per JK - left over from air start?

Flywheel marking looks correct to me. The two date numbers (production 1952-81) where always last so you knew what they referred to.

JP4 manual available to view here - you will need to register though.

Good luck with installation.

[veggie]

WHAT THE ... !!!! 

Ade, that thing is massive.
I thought my SR2 was pushing the limits of my garage space but that takes the cake.
What are your plans for it ?
(power the whole neighbourhood?) 

nice find.,
veggie

[AdeV]

Hi Richard - the COV on #4 is blanked off, I will be looking for a replacement for it (I assume it had 4 originally). Although if that's where the air start went, then it's quite possible it was originally fitted with such. Then again, that's assuming it really was a boat engine from new; it doesn't have the water cooled exhaust, or a water pump (there was an ancillary electric pump which I didn't get to have) as I'd expect with a marinised engine. I'm hoping that David Edgington (THE authority on old Listers) might be able to shed some light.

Veggie - I plan to build a 3-phase generator which will run my workshop. Even with the gear I've got now, it should be able to do that without breaking sweat I've got a 3600rpm 3-phase alternator to belt up to it, and I'll probably stick an ST head on there as well to provide a separate single-phase supply, that will be backup power for the house as well. This is all part of the "move to Portugal" plan, where 3-phase is expensive to install, and power cuts aren't unknown like they are in the UK. If I get the place I want, I'll have about 10 acres to play with, so I should be able to grow my own oil... Olives would be best, I can then sell the olive oil & buy cheap sunflower oil with the money...

All dreams.... but now I've got the engine, I've got part way there 

[dieselgman]

I can't help but comment that 3-phase power can be had in a very small plant... everyone knows that it can be dreadfully wasteful to run any larger machine than is absolutely necessary.

What kind of horsepower does that machine pull at its rated 1100rpm?

dieselgman

[AdeV]

The official rating is 40bhp @ 1100rpm - after that the torque curve drops right off a cliff, so the highest official rating (1200rpm) is still 40bhp.

I get 32bhp @ 700rpm, so I could run it at around that speed (maybe 600rpm) and still get significant power.

[listard-jp2]

Hi Richard - the COV on #4 is blanked off, I will be looking for a replacement for it (I assume it had 4 originally). Although if that's where the air start went, then it's quite possible it was originally fitted with such. Then again, that's assuming it really was a boat engine from new; it doesn't have the water cooled exhaust, or a water pump (there was an ancillary electric pump which I didn't get to have) as I'd expect with a marinised engine.

Your engine would have started life as an engine for industrial applications, most likely a generator application or part of an Ingersol Rand compressor set.
How do I know this ?
You see that plate on number 1 cylinder head, that would have been for a centrifugal water pump that attached via four bolt holes (part of the impellor would have sat inside the cylinder head, this item is shown in detail in the JP instruction manual), and was driven from the crankshaft pulley that is still present on your engine.

The low level linked decompressors would never have been used on a marine application.

The engine is not fitted with a dry sump type of oil pump.

However all things considered, you still had a good buy for 500 GBP

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lister-jp4-and-gearbox-/291443223952

[richardhula]

The official rating is 40bhp @ 1100rpm - after that the torque curve drops right off a cliff, so the highest official rating (1200rpm) is still 40bhp.

I get 32bhp @ 700rpm, so I could run it at around that speed (maybe 600rpm) and still get significant power.

Listers quoted 46 bhp for a JP4 at 1200 rpm. The higher revving JK4, 62 bhp at 1500 rpm. I imagine marine propulsion versions were rated a little less as maybe hp absorbed by propellor was quoted (as shown in manual - Lloyds requirement?), since marine auxiliary versions quoted full bhp.

Agree that yours started life as an industrial version though.

[AdeV]

Hi Richard - the COV on #4 is blanked off, I will be looking for a replacement for it (I assume it had 4 originally). Although if that's where the air start went, then it's quite possible it was originally fitted with such. Then again, that's assuming it really was a boat engine from new; it doesn't have the water cooled exhaust, or a water pump (there was an ancillary electric pump which I didn't get to have) as I'd expect with a marinised engine.

Your engine would have started life as an engine for industrial applications, most likely a generator application or part of an Ingersol Rand compressor set.
How do I know this ?
You see that plate on number 1 cylinder head, that would have been for a centrifugal water pump that attached via four bolt holes (part of the impellor would have sat inside the cylinder head, this item is shown in detail in the JP instruction manual), and was driven from the crankshaft pulley that is still present on your engine.

The low level linked decompressors would never have been used on a marine application.

The engine is not fitted with a dry sump type of oil pump.

However all things considered, you still had a good buy for 500 GBP

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lister-jp4-and-gearbox-/291443223952

Interesting.... although that plate appears on all JP4s that I've seen; the fitting appears to be different according to application, e.g. for thermosiphoning radiator cooling, it just has a pipe that sticks out at 45 degrees, this is piped to the top of the rad.

Anyway, I'm hopeful I'll find out who its original owner was soon, I have to send the serial number off to a chap here in the UK who has Lister's old sales records.


Richard - the JP4 spec sheets can be seen here: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/spec.htm

Page 3 (http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/384P3data.htm)  shows the power curve clearly topping out at 40bhp.

Page 2 also shows "40hp @ 1100rpm" and "40hp @ 1200rpm" options. I can only assume the difference was to allow a genset to operate at 50hz or 60hz with the same dynamo/alternator & engine set.

Cheers,
Ade.

[millman56]

Just as it happens Ade, I have in stock a 27 KVA 415 Volt 3 phase 6 pole alternator and original control panel/regulator that was in all probability, originally fitted to one of these beasts.    I used it to drive a plant for a short time and regulated it with a 3 phase AVR fed from the main stator.
Mark.

[selmawp]

Hi, for any one who like to know kippen soep means chikken soup.

[richardhula]

Richard - the JP4 spec sheets can be seen here: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/spec.htm

Page 3 (http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/384P3data.htm)  shows the power curve clearly topping out at 40bhp.

Page 2 also shows "40hp @ 1100rpm" and "40hp @ 1200rpm" options. I can only assume the difference was to allow a genset to operate at 50hz or 60hz with the same dynamo/alternator & engine set.

Cheers,
Ade.

Hi Ade - yes I thought that may be where you got your info from. Remember though that the performance graphs related to a factory set up engine that was governed to a particular rpm, so not surprising the torque dropped off quickly and power line flattened as it approached max rpm when pump supply was cut back. I was only aware of 1000 and 1200 rpm governor weights for JP's, but maybe 1100 rpm ones where available as well.

Clearly the generic engine would develop more power if revs were allowed to increase as demonstrated by the JK model.