Author Topic: Another 6/1 Restoration  (Read 121299 times)

BruceM

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #210 on: May 22, 2018, 05:24:08 PM »
Pop pressure is not going to matter much in our slow speed engines.  Within 10% of spec would be fine on a single cylinder engine.  I'd match pop pressures for a twin. 

Your smoke n the video seems to look a bit blueish- so I'd bet on ring seating or excess splash oil.

I'm also a  MB 300D owner/driver.  Matching pop pressure/pattern for it is quite helpful to engine smoothness.  A DIY grease gun pop tester worked well for me.


BruceM

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #211 on: May 23, 2018, 12:59:48 AM »
Yes, my 1985 300D has a turbo charger. Shorter engine life than the NA model (average is about 350K) but at my elevation of 5600 feet it's essential. I pull a couple utility trailers and for years pulled a small sailboat (West Wight Potter) with it with no trouble at all. 

 



 





 




Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #212 on: May 23, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »
Your smoke n the video seems to look a bit blueish- so I'd bet on ring seating or excess splash oil.

I'm also a  MB 300D owner/driver.  Matching pop pressure/pattern for it is quite helpful to engine smoothness.  A DIY grease gun pop tester worked well for me.

I doubt if it is oil burning - but I can't eliminate the possibility totally with the low engine hours.

My dad used to have a '79 300D natural aspirated - drove it for years but he let it go 18 years ago and replaced it with a C180. Still remeber that car very well.. He always had the injectors, timing and tappets perfect but it took a bit of effort to maintain. The petrol burners are just so much easier to live with.

Thanks to the Merc I have a proper injector tester. I would love to see how your make-do tester works.

They never brought them out here so mine being NA was woefully slow, even to the point of being dangerous I felt.   

South Africa also missed out on the W123 turbo models... so I know exactly what you are talking about - and to think we thought the 300 was fast compared to the 240 we had!!  :D

The W124 6 cylinder was turbocharged. One saw very few of them on the roads. Always wondered if they were any good? The W123s are very comfortable rides and totally indestructable. The 240D is still with the people who bought it from my dad (30 years ago??). The engine was redone at some point, but it's got hundreds of thousands of farmroad kilometres on it. Just for interest sake - The 240D is basically identical to the 300D with basically just one cylinder chopped off.
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #213 on: June 06, 2018, 02:47:21 PM »
Some more experimentation results:
I have not yet had a chance to have the injector checked by a service centre for a second oppinion - so that and also the probability of the rings not fully seated are still factors not eliminated. What I did however find is the effect of Diesel sulphur content. Currently we have a choice between 10ppm, 50ppm and 500ppm. I tried all 3 and it seems like the 500ppm makes more smoke - but I'll need more playtime to reach a proven conclusion. What are your experiences with this? Also - the effect of sulphur content related to fuel lubricity, cetane- and calorific values seems as much debated and opinionated as any technical topic out there... so far my research has just helped me reach my own opinion! I am not too worried about fuel combustion performance - I am more interested to know what is best for the pump and injector. 30+ years ago Diesel probably had a sulphur ppm count of 3-5000!?  Should these older injection systems not be fed with some 2 stroke oil in the mix? Or is sulphur lubrication properties replaced well enough with alternative additives?

None of this is probably applicable to a CS as it won't even notice the difference. Only these modern DPF and AdBlue DEF systems would mind if they where fed some crude fuel  ::) but the theory behind it all is still interesting.
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

mike90045

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #214 on: June 07, 2018, 01:12:05 AM »
I use 2 stroke oil mixed with pump (low sulfur) diesel,  200:1

Sadly, bio diesel has gone away in my area, I can drive 30 miles and get some 20%, but it's not worth the bother.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #215 on: June 07, 2018, 08:21:25 PM »
I look at it like this, if you put a bit of oil or 2 stroke in your engine and it dosen't work, so what? You have lost nothing.  IF it does work, even to offset one IP or injector failure or rebuild, you are a long way ahead.

Smoke never worries me in the least as long as it's from a 2 stroke or a Diesel.  In this case some 2 stroke may reduce the smoke levels as it has additives to do that. It could also help with carbon buildup as it has additives designed to prevent that as well.

I just don't feel comfortable these days with straight Diesel. Adding some oil I think is very worth while and lets me feel more comfortable about the well being of my Diesels.

I also can't see any harm done by adding some 2SO to the Diesel. Even some engine oil will do just as well but that will definitely cause some smoking if overdosed. I had a VW Jetta 1.8 with Mechanical Bosch K-Jetronic CIS (Continuous injection system). I always added 2SO to the petrol. Never had a fuel pump failure again. The system had an accumilator to keep the whole system under pressure when switched off. If an injector started leaking the car would basically be flooded when starting. 2SO in the tank fixed those injectors and kept them happy. Proven over and over. With this experience nobody has to convince me to dump oil in the fuel!

We never had Biodiesel sold commercially here. Totally unheard of - until word did the rounds years ago that a massive Biodiesel plant was to be build. The huge hype around business oportunities and potential incomes got suddenly extinguished when the whole thing turned out to be a scam attempting to lure investors in... why do these people not invest this energy into something productive I'll never understand. I wonder if it ever would have worked anyway - the greenies where up in arms about the use of maize for fuel when hunger stares so many in the face --- never saw the upped maize production anayway...

The only Diesel quality problems was when Power Paraffin (Kerosene) was still produced by the local refineries. Some dodgy filling stations diluted the Diesel with this and caused lots of damage to pumps and injectors. When sticking to the busy branded filling stations this was however never an issue.

1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

guest23837

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #216 on: June 07, 2018, 11:34:13 PM »
My 2 bobs worth on adding 2 stroke oil to diesel. It's automotive homeopathy the quantities are too small to make a difference. I tried an experiment with whiskey and water at 200:1 ratio it tasted like water to me!

Hugh Conway

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #217 on: June 08, 2018, 06:15:28 PM »
Re additives to increase lubricity in diesel fuels.
Here is a study and results.

jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

 A lot of stuff out there that claims it does, does not.

cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

BruceM

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #218 on: June 08, 2018, 06:44:32 PM »
Great link Hugh, thanks!
Pity they didn't test straight vegetable oils as additives but adding 2% soy biodiesel was the hands down winner.




dieselspanner

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #219 on: June 08, 2018, 08:53:52 PM »
Nice one, Hugh, thanks for that.

And it was done 11 years back!

Cheers Stef

Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #220 on: October 03, 2018, 01:38:18 PM »
It's been a while since I had a chance to do some more work on the engine. I blame the winter for that. I just do what I HAVE TO do and hibernate the rest of the time. The weather has warmed up nicely now and we expect probably the last cold front to pass us in the next two days. It never snows here - we just get the cold!

The only thing I totally skipped during the restoration was the rocker assembly. I just cleaned it up and put it back when I assembled the engine to get it running. The wear in the bushes was quite bad and there was a distinct clicking sound coming from the valve gear.
 

As I did with the Camshaft, I turned the worn Rocker shaft ends down to get them round again. The centre portion where it locates in the block is still standard.


There were steel bushes in the rockers... I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be brass!
I opted to make the replacement bushes from VESCONITE. Pretty amazing stuff. This is used everywhere to replace brass bushes and brass wear plates in machinery. Easy to machine, extremely durable and dead cheap compared to brass.

I had these two pieces in my off-cut bin waiting to do something great


New bush machined and in the rocker ready to do some work


There is now zero slop in the rocker assembly and it most definately runs quiter. It took me all of 2 hours to get done and I have no idea why I haven't done this sooner!

A reminder of what the panel looked like when I last worked on it:


I gathered my last energy, stripped out all the guts, cut two more windows in the door and painted it the prettiest colour I could think off.  ;)



Next I got myself a little to-me-from-me for my b-day and finished off the panel with a brand new frequency- and hour meter. It cost an arm and leg but well worth it. Appart from added functionality it finishes the panel off nicely.


The new face:


A little video to show what it looks like now:
It runs a whole lot better with the new gadgets installed  :D
https://youtu.be/C5JExqserFk


1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

ajaffa1

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #221 on: October 03, 2018, 02:17:37 PM »
+1 Glort, what a beautiful restoration, a credit to you and your skills. Hope mine turns out as nice.

I managed to source Oilite bushes for my rockers, right internal/external dimensions but 1/8" too long, not a difficult fix.

Bob

BruceM

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #222 on: October 03, 2018, 03:03:37 PM »
That's one gorgeous restoration, Dieselsmoker!

saba

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #223 on: October 03, 2018, 11:50:26 PM »
Incredible, super only the video should last 30 min longer. Really amazing.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #224 on: October 04, 2018, 07:45:43 AM »
Wow!

Definitely one of the most beautifully finished, best detailed and well equipped setups I have seen. And runs like a swiss watch as well.

BIG credit to you mate.
Thank you for the kind words. 

Now that one is finished and you have nothing else to do, Can I send you my roid and a Cheque to give it the same once over??
I'd be proud as punch to have something like that in my shed..... or lounge room more likely!
We can talk business if you have LOTS of patience!  :D
This job took only took me 5 years to get here and I've already got more ideas... It really shouldn't take that long but in between life and other projects this build just dragged on forever - but it was well worth it in the end. I hinted at pulling it into the lounge but I was not take seriously. I never got a definate "no", so maybe...  ;)

+1 Glort, what a beautiful restoration, a credit to you and your skills. Hope mine turns out as nice.

I managed to source Oilite bushes for my rockers, right internal/external dimensions but 1/8" too long, not a difficult fix.

Bob
Thank you!
Patience and perseverance and you'll definitaly get there! few people really appreciate the amount of effort it takes to build something like this. 

Oilite is just perfect for this application. Not too easy to come by and cost about the same as gold by weight!   

That's one gorgeous restoration, Dieselsmoker!

Thanks!

Incredible, super only the video should last 30 min longer. Really amazing.
Thanks!
I'll make you a special video - or loop this one  :D
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project