Author Topic: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???  (Read 13665 times)

mike90045

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clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« on: January 28, 2015, 09:43:16 PM »
This morning, after about a 60 minute run at moderate load (2Kw, 6/1) as I was walking back to shut it down, I hear a new clank happening from 300' coming from the engine, at  about every 15 sec or so.  Very metallic and loud.  I got the the electric controls and shut the load (battery charging) down, and gave it about another minute to cool a bit, then shut the fuel lever off.   After I removed the load, I didn't hear the clank anymore and during spin down, I heard nothing unusual. Temps were fine, oil was full the day before. and a brief inspection and rocking the flywheels back and forth afterwards, revealed nothing.
 A short phone call to Tom (Thank you Tom) and his suggestion was loose gib key/flywheel.    I took a 2nd look at them, and the shaft collars are tight, keys look tight, and could not get anything to wiggle.    I'll pull the belt off and inspect the driving side flywheel again, but if it all looks good, what would the next step be to do?    I'm going to look inside the crankcase later today (had NRCS/USDA inspectors over this AM and couldn't get into it then)
 
 What does detonation sound like on 6/1's ?  It could have been that?  I've got a fair amount of fluffy carbon blowing out the pipe, but the exhaust looks pretty clean burning. Burning Red Diesel with a 100:1 2 stroke in it. I cleaned some crud off the injector less than a dozen hours ago.   It was not making the sound on every stroke, just 15, 20 sec intervals.

Baffled (Mike)

mike90045

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 01:03:21 AM »
What would chunks of carbon breaking loose, sound like ?   Lots more fluffy carbon on my deflector, maybe I'm over oiling the valve spring wells.

Took the belt off the alternator, spun by hand CW & CCW, felt the crank, idler & cam gears, felt around in the sump, didn't find anything.

Flywheels are solid, rang each spoke, gib keys seem tight, no slop anywhere I could find.   started and ran it for a couple minutes (rolls over real easy w/o the belt) belted it up, and ran again for a couple minutes, all seemed fine.    I'm clueless and open to suggestions.   I have shaft collars (2 piece style) on each shaft right up against the gib key, as a safety measure against falling off, and pant cuff protection.

I did find the 2 arms for the fuel tank (relocated a month ago) had a loose bolt each, so I pulled them both off completely, and reinstalled their bolts with thread sealer #2, to keep any pinhole leaks at bay.  But I doubt those critters were making the sound I heard.  I guess the next run will find me sitting nearby (NOT inline with the flywheels) with a string tied to the fuel control, and waiting, hopefully bored.


38ac

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 01:46:35 PM »
What would chunks of carbon breaking loose, sound like ? 



Like you describe, sounds like things are coming apart inside, like the engine just swallowed a 1/2" nut

Lots of fluffy carbon is a clue to problems also. Sounds like time for decoking to me. Although black residue is normal "lots" of fluffy residue would not be normal when burning #2 diesel and comes from injector problems. Check injector for pop off pressure, leak down and pattern.


Collector and horder of about anything diesel

mike90045

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 01:11:28 AM »
injector problems. Check injector for pop off pressure, leak down and pattern.

So, specs I have call for
Injector setting pressure (5/1 6/1 10/2 12/2) --- 90 atmospheres or 1325 lbs per square inch
 &
Injector No: (5/1, 6/1, 10/2, 12/2) CAV BKB505S507b,
Nozzle No: CAV BDL30S46

dieselgman - are these normally in stock, and do you calibrate before shipping ?
( or is it another trip to a distant town where they fix/adjust things instead of replace ? )


mike90045

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2015, 01:25:06 AM »
So, today I tried a short run, then loaded up in 500W increments till I was at 2600w, and it was just smooth.  I let i t set there under load, and sprayed about 1/2 cup of water through the intake, didn't hear anything different, so I'm looking into injector issues and will try a new one when I get it.

dieselgman

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2015, 01:29:26 AM »
We keep the new pumps and injectors in stock... should already be factory calibrated and I have not seen any discrepancies.

We have a few nozzles and pump elements from time to time... but it is generally more cost effective to replace whole assemblies. If you are the type to tinker with your own stuff a lot, then I can see where cleaning and repairing would be attractive to you. In our shop, we have to consider the time involved and fixed costs attached to all activities... so generally prefer outright replacement unless I am just tinkering around with my personal projects.

dieselgman
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mike90045

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 09:32:42 PM »
Under load today, the Noise started again, after about half hour, when it was good and warm.  I backed off the power, and under 2KW of load, it was sounding normal.  I loaded the spray bottle with 50% IPA (I don't have any methanol) and did about 10 oz into the intake, a few squirts, then a pause.  I could easily quench the burn with a single heavy squirt, and so I avoided doing that.  then the sun came out, and I shut down because I had no load (solar took over the battery charge).
 So, while I suspect the "sound" is denotation or carbon, I think it's related to load/heat, and both flywheels seem quite secure, and after "ringing" them with a wrench, it's not the sound that I'm hearing.
 I should have a new injector late this week, and now I'm finding nobody has a pop-off tester for setting the injector. May have to go to the next town down the road.

Tom

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2015, 10:37:05 PM »
Hey Mike, I've got a pop off tester just 2 towns down the road. It's never been used, so I can't guarantee it works.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Gippslander

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 09:02:20 AM »
Hey Mike, I've got a pop off tester just 2 towns down the road. It's never been used, so I can't guarantee it works.

What is a POP off Tester ? 
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

dieselgman

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 12:57:47 PM »
The tester in question is a bench-mounted hand pump with pressure gauge used for testing proper injector function. You can also do a certain amount of injector testing right on your engine by simply connecting the injector to the pressure line without installing the injector into the head, and then rolling the engine over. This allows for inspection of proper nozzle operation but does not show you the operating pressure.

dieselgman
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deeiche

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2015, 01:36:14 PM »
SNIP
I loaded the spray bottle with 50% IPA (I don't have any methanol)
SNIP

Hmmm, that is an interesting use for Indian Pale Ale.  :D

Sorry, that is the first thing I thought when I saw IPA.

Tom

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2015, 05:39:40 PM »
The one I have has a pressure gauge, so I guess it's an injector tester.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

dieselgman

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 07:09:18 PM »
Also commonly known as "pop-off" tester, "pop" tester, "bench" tester and so on.

dieselgman
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32 coupe

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 09:00:02 PM »
Mike,
I am wondering why you add 2 stroke oil in the fuel ??

Gary
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Tom

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Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 10:57:54 PM »
Mike's IP was making a creaking noise a bit of bio-diesel or oil seemed to help. In fact that reminds me, perhaps the noise Mike is hearing is the IP sticking and then popping open with a clank against the lifter. Mike I hope you're ready for the big storm coming this weekend.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 10:59:26 PM by Tom »
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.