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Author Topic: Jkson 6/1 rebuild  (Read 116405 times)

BruceM

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #255 on: May 20, 2015, 03:28:24 PM »
One of the Rajkot Listeroid mods was to use a cylinder liner along with eliminating two head bolts and the lower oil sump and pump.  I have no complaint about these mods, though I think Dieselgman's emphasis on sticking to the original design also has merit.

There was concern about how well those rubber o rings on the cylinder would handle a pressurized cooling system, so many of us (myself included on my older Metro 6/1 Listeroid)  run unpressurized. 

I'm not sure how legit this concern is, and there is some efficiency gain and perhaps less carbon build up for higher coolant operating temperatures, which need some pressure. 

I'm still undecided on the DES 8/1 propane conversion engine; it is a Lister clone so has no liner, making pressurized operation a bit more appealing. 


dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #256 on: May 20, 2015, 03:49:08 PM »
I run a Lister parts warehousing operation among other things... so my emphasis is really all about the parts involved. Standardization simply makes my job a whole lot simpler and more trouble-free, so my emphasis is somewhat more driven by this than the technical merits (or demerits) of certain design elements. If you add the KISS principle to this, I believe the scales tip towards original designs although the elimination of an oil pump and extra sump certainly further simplifies the design. The Indian Listeroids with extra displacement, internal counterweights, Roller-bearing mains, and such modifications seem to be solid designs as well - even though they depart from Lister originality in many important aspects.

Personally and technically, I do not like the sleeved (especially wet-sleeve) cylinder configurations. Many manufacturers use this design and it serves them well from a manufacturing design perspective, but come rebuild time, a lot of extra work and trouble can come into play.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 03:57:39 PM by dieselgman »
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BruceM

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #257 on: May 20, 2015, 04:02:36 PM »
Gary, what is your recommendation on non/pressurized coolant and operating coolant temperature?  Would this change for my propane conversion? 




dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #258 on: May 20, 2015, 07:14:56 PM »
Bruce,

You want to run your system for certain above 180F and below the coolant boiling point... pressurization will give you some extra temperature range at the top-end but not ideal to run anything above 210. I have read here that some prefer tuning their system to about 200F. Preferable to keep the cooling system at or near atmospheric pressure (unpressurized).

The Propane conversion should produce a little higher exhaust temperature and a little more heat transfer up in the head... but the cooling system should be otherwise unaffected.

Running a pressurized system will increase the likelihood of problems (leaks) with your head gasket coolant seal... this is where the more modern composite head gasket with silicone water jacket dams comes into its own. I have not heard about any cylinder seal failures caused by pressurizing the cooling system... but I have inspected a few of the seals used in the wet-sleeve Indian Listeroids. I was not impressed with the o-ring quality.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 07:20:58 PM by dieselgman »
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Tom

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #259 on: May 20, 2015, 07:54:24 PM »
That's why they use 2 O rings, so the odds improve that you get a good one on a good sealing surface.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

BruceM

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #260 on: May 20, 2015, 11:40:39 PM »
Thanks, dieselgman.  We'll stick to a no pressure coolant system despite our 5600 ft elevation. 


32 coupe

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #261 on: May 20, 2015, 11:56:26 PM »
That is why I went with the no pressure system.

After MANY hours of reading here I realized the potential of
coolant leaks. Man, I got enough problems without adding to
them, so the  "no pressure" cooling just seemed like a no brainer !

With that said, I did have a seep in a head gasket......again, reading
is your best frend.........remove head, let gasket dry out, soak in "mop &
glow, redry, reinstall and hey, we are good to go !


I'll amble off now,
Gary



Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

BruceM

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #262 on: May 21, 2015, 12:02:06 AM »
My older Metro 6/1 running here at 5600 feet elevation makes endless tiny bubbles with a 185F thermostat, I suppose from a hot spot in the cylinder head,  so I had to run it cooler.  I'll see how it goes with the DES 8/1.


Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #263 on: May 21, 2015, 02:00:59 AM »
When I noticed the two rubber rings on the cylinder liner, I was a little surprised , never seen that before . After reading through this forum , nobody has reported any problems with the rings leaking, so I thought the rings are probably OK .  Maybe modern neoprene rings would be better ?  

I used a copper/asbestos  head gasket , and I used the HYLOMAR sealant on the gasket as it is a well tried and tested effective product .

I have decided to use the 25mm radiator hoses , I have ordered two 1" BSP barb fittings for the inlet/outlet flange on the roid .  I have a  mechanical temp gauge and I will use a 1" BSP joiner with a T fitting for the temp gauge bulb , on the upper flange .

I could not have done all of this setup work without the help on this forum ............    ;)

 

« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 02:16:06 AM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Tom

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #264 on: May 21, 2015, 04:18:03 PM »
My older Metro 6/1 running here at 5600 feet elevation makes endless tiny bubbles with a 185F thermostat, I suppose from a hot spot in the cylinder head,  so I had to run it cooler.  I'll see how it goes with the DES 8/1.

Mine did that for years, never could find the problem. Then it lost compression and on removing the head a streak of corrosion was found in the cylinder wall. Put a new liner in still had bubbles and lost compression in a year. After a through investigation I found the ledge in the cylinder block where the liner seats was not machined square to the surface of the block (shocking I know). Got a new cylinder block and liner and joy of joy's no more bubbles.

To test get a jar, fill with water and hold it upside down over the bubbles if the gas bubble grows it's not steam bubbles or if you have a radiator there are cheap block tester kits that will tell you what you need to know.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

BruceM

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #265 on: May 21, 2015, 07:06:39 PM »
Good point, Tom, it could be a tiny compression leak, somewhere, though my compression has always been very good and I'm now pushing 3000 hrs. 

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #266 on: May 22, 2015, 12:52:14 PM »
I needed another outlet flange for the thermostsat , the stat fits between the two flanges . I contacted the roid dealer here but he does not have any flanges in stock  :o

I found a lump of aluminium, so I decided to make a flange

I bored and threaded it for 1" BSP thread .

Then onto the cheap Asian mill for some shaping . I can take 1/4" deep cuts with the roughing cutter in the soft aluminium  ..  If I save my pennies, one day I will buy a Bridgeport milling machine  :)

« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 12:55:25 PM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #267 on: May 24, 2015, 10:56:00 AM »
Well the flange is made .. I am using a mechanical temp gauge . I need to buy a 1/2" BSP tap , I will drill and tap the aluminium flange for the gauge  sender bulb adapter which has a 1/2" BSP thread .

« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 11:00:06 AM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #268 on: May 25, 2015, 08:44:03 AM »
At the local engineering hardware store, a good quality 1/2 BSP tap is over $80   ??? ???. They have a cheaper one , probably made from carbon steel, for $40 .  I went to ebay and got one from a Asian supplier  for $9 .... the quailty may be a issue with it  but it will be good enough for tapping into aluminium . ;D

Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

dieselspanner

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #269 on: May 25, 2015, 09:11:37 AM »
Hi All

Across Europe we have a budget supermarket chain called Lidl, some of the hand tools they sell are of fairly decent quality.

A couple of years back I bought a BSP pipe threading set, with dies from 1/4" to 1 1/4", in a plastic carrycase complete with 2 pipe cutters and two pipe wrenches, and it ain't too bad, I had the last one in the shop for 17!!

And it cut around 15 1 1/4" threads when i moved the central heating boiler with no sign of damage. Well worth grabbing one if they reappear.

With large numbers of big brands outsourcing their manufacturing to the Far East it's no wonder quality is getting better.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.