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Author Topic: Jkson 6/1 rebuild  (Read 134076 times)

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #195 on: May 01, 2015, 09:16:39 AM »
Fixing the leaky fuel system

1.  get rid of the bad quality Indian tap underneath the fuel tank . The soldered/brazed tap fitting in the tank bottom,  has a odd sized thread , the like of which I have never seen before . I think I will remove that fitting and braze on a standard fitting to accept the pipe flared nut fitting

2. fit some steel fuel  pipes at throw away the Indian hoses .
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

38ac

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #196 on: May 01, 2015, 11:59:27 AM »


"In addition to the higher speed rating, the 8/1 and 16/2 dispensed with the compression changeover system. Apparently Lister's engineers figured that with a slightly lower compression ratio than the original starting ratio, the engine would start reliably and could run continuously at this ratio without the complication of changing compression ratios. The removable auxiliary chamber inserts and changeover valve were replaced with a simple plug. The compression ratio was fixed at 17.5:1. This was done without altering the volume of the combustion chamber, by shimming the cylinder at the base to produce .030" more clearance between the piston crown and head, leaving a little more air in the cylinder space at TDC. Thus, the cylinders, pistons and heads remained interchangeable between the older and newer engines."


Yup,
As you have discovered your proposed use of the COV is kinda backwards, it will lower your compression if screwed out but you wouldn't want to run the engine with it screwed in. It sure sounds as if your injection is advanced too far or squish is too tight and correcting either would be an economical alternative to a COV I think? A quick and easy check would be to crank it as if trying to start but leave the fuel lever up. If it still kicks back on the crank handle them compression is doing it, ifnot then early injection timing is doing it.

 Yes  a properly set up 8/1 cranks over easier than a 6/1 with the COV cranked in but the difference is hard to feel even if you have both side by side to compare.
Data taken from the technical manuals says that a COV equipped engine when set to start should have  around 600 PSI of compression. When set to running position you should  read around 450 PSI.
A properly set up 8/1 type without COV should be around 560 PSI
My personal experience is that a properly set up engine that is broken in will be close to those figures but I caution against using them as a guide to setting squish. A lot of things affect cranking compression readings besides squish. Valve recession being one, valve sealing being another along with condition of piston, rings and bore. How fast the engine is cranked, temperature and probably a few more that I have neglected to name.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:04:34 PM by 38ac »
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38ac

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #197 on: May 01, 2015, 12:01:02 PM »
Your ideas with the tank and lines agree with my methods of dealing with leaks. The tank fitting is a  standard thread but the name escapes me. I can find data if needed. The fitting will seal to the tank if you file the burrs from both surfaces and keep them parallel while doing so. A hard fiber sealing washer seems to work  better there than a copper one as long as the lines are fixed ridged and the engine isn't hopping around when running.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:18:36 PM by 38ac »
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #198 on: May 01, 2015, 01:04:09 PM »
To be honest I think the piston clearance may be too little - this is causing my problem .

The tank fitting has me baffled , this is the pic of the leaky Indian tap

The thread measures a bit over 5/8" on the outside . It is around 22 tpi but thats a guess .  Is it BSF ? No . Is it metric , could be ?



 

« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 01:07:09 PM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

38ac

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #199 on: May 01, 2015, 02:59:34 PM »
I am pretty sure the tank is threaded  BSPP or British Standard Pipe Parallel but need to check some notes at the shop.
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #200 on: May 01, 2015, 03:27:22 PM »
I am pretty sure the tank is threaded  BSPP or British Standard Pipe Parallel but need to check some notes at the shop.

of course ... 3/8"  BSP    that's what it is .
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

32 coupe

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #201 on: May 01, 2015, 06:19:50 PM »
You will probibly want to ditch that tank anyway. The constant "thumping" will destroy it in time.
I had custom tanks made for mine.
Just a thought....
Gary

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #202 on: May 02, 2015, 01:53:21 AM »
You will probibly want to ditch that tank anyway. The constant "thumping" will destroy it in time.
I had custom tanks made for mine.
Just a thought....
Gary



Hey Gary.. my roid does not thump.... it has a gentle musical sound , like the old drum kit you used to have  :o
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #203 on: May 03, 2015, 09:29:37 AM »
I have the Delphi filter on , still playing around with the fuel lines




The maths seems to say I need a 10" diameter pulley on the ST-3 .

What have you guys done for pullies ?  

I might buy a piece of aluminium and make my own pulley for a serpentine or automotive type multi rib belt , mainly because the price of a taper bush centre 10" serpentine pulley here is $200  ::) ::) ::)  makes your eyes spin

Mike
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 10:18:59 AM by Gippslander »
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dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #204 on: May 03, 2015, 12:13:39 PM »
Going with smaller vee-belt pulleys is inexpensive in comparison. A 12" double sheaved drive pulley fitted for the engine crankshaft is common, but most prefer just to drive generators from the flywheel face due to the belt speeds required and the wear-and-tear aspect. I still prefer the industrial L section micro-v belting with heavy pulley on generator head for a lot of reasons including low maintenance, rotational stability and longevity; but indeed the costs for such can be double or triple the cost of common vee belts and pulleys.

Most common aluminum types might be too soft a metal to hold up as a vee-belt pulley. A lot of wear can take place in the groove. Steel or cast iron is likely a much better choice for making your own pulleys.

dieselgman
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #205 on: May 03, 2015, 01:11:58 PM »


Most common aluminum types might be too soft a metal to hold up as a vee-belt pulley. A lot of wear can take place in the groove. Steel or cast iron is likely a much better choice for making your own pulleys.

dieselgman

Yes I agree . But finding a lump of steel or cast iron of that diameter around here , is very difficult . One of my old lathes uses aluminium V section pullies on the motor and the counter shaft pulley and it seems to last OK in that situation
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dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #206 on: May 03, 2015, 03:36:52 PM »
I believe there are some aircraft alloys with very good surface hardness. Boeing Surplus in the US would be one such inexpensive source.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

32 coupe

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #207 on: May 03, 2015, 04:27:28 PM »
 :D
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 04:30:49 PM by 32 coupe »
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

Gippslander

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Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

38ac

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #209 on: May 04, 2015, 01:04:09 PM »
When I built my sets I looked in the Reliance/Dodge catalog to find a 2-3 groove V-belt pulley that had the right hub and enough iron in the right places on the O.D.  I then punched my requirements into our USA ebay which has tons of such for cheap if you watch.  Mounted the pulley on a short shaft and placed it between centers and tuned away everything that dint look like a serpentine pulley of the correct size. I think I have around $40 in both of mine. If you shop for new \be prepared for sticker shock.
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