Author Topic: Jkson 6/1 rebuild  (Read 134105 times)

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #180 on: April 29, 2015, 09:04:09 AM »
Ok advice needed

Been trying to start this roid ..no luck

As the piston comes up on the compression stroke , it bounces back from the massive compression . I just cannot get the piston to go over TDC .

I spin the flywheel up to speed with the valve decompressor in place , but as I move the decompressor to the out position , the piston comes up and just  bounces back , It just will not go over TDC on the compression stroke  .

I see a small amount of exhaust smoke , very little . I don't have a COV fitted , maybe I need one ?

Any help gratefully accepted
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #181 on: April 29, 2015, 12:00:28 PM »
How much force are you applying to the starting handle during compression stroke? There is a little bit of a knack to learning when to really putting your back into it.
What bump height did you set your piston/head clearance to?

dieselgman
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #182 on: April 29, 2015, 12:52:44 PM »
How much force are you applying to the starting handle during compression stroke? There is a little bit of a knack to learning when to really putting your back into it.
What bump height did you set your piston/head clearance to?

dieselgman

I am giving it a pretty good upward pull on the compression stroke  .

Do I always keep the crank handle in as I release the decompressor ?

I set the bump height to .060" but it may have squashed down a bit as I torqued the head down  

I have seen guys starting these engines on U tube videos and they seem to be easy to turn over and fire up . This one of mine is not easy at all
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 12:55:46 PM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

38ac

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #183 on: April 29, 2015, 01:38:27 PM »
Sorry if being simplistic but Is the engine decompressing? It should just freewheel and turn easily with it engaged.  You then give it 3-4 revolutions with the crank to get a bit of momentum then swing the decompressor off of the lifter and the flywheels take it over compression. When it fires the crank will come off the shaft.

A safety hint that could save pain and suffering is to get in the habit of placing a bit of oil or grease on the crankshaft and spinning the hand  crank backwards to both spread it and also be certain the latch moves out easily, each time prior to attempting a start up.
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Combustor

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #184 on: April 29, 2015, 02:21:08 PM »
           Don't suppose you were sold the myth that these old gals should still be running on single weight non detergent oil?  That was fine when there was nothing better, but a modern multigrade diesel oil will be thinner at low temps and thicker at running temps than the old stuff, and will perform better and keep an engine cleaner. Unless you have tight bearings and/or rings, your engine should spin freely and go over compression without excess effort.
         Check that the exhaust valve is well off the seat when decompressed. As long as you can still depress the exhaust valve a little more at TDC before contacting the piston, you are OK.  Can always put a shim or 2 under the decomp lever if more travel is needed.  If you have had to use wide valve clearances to correct the timing then you may have to doctor the decomp travel to get the required setting.  Have fun re-inventing the Lister CS from your kit of parts. Regards,
        Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
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dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #185 on: April 29, 2015, 02:50:34 PM »
We still recommend the non-detergent oils as a break-in lubricant. During the first 50 to 100 hours it is a good thing to encourage a little extra wear - especially for ring seating. If it is cold, then that can present a little extra difficulty in starting for sure.

I guess I did not ask you about your pump/injection timing... that can have a considerable influence on cold starting.

When you release the compression lever, you should continue to crank hard until you get ignition. Don't worry too much about initial starting difficulties... once your unit has been run a bit and you get it fine-tuned, it should start up pretty nice and easy.

dieselgman
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #186 on: April 30, 2015, 02:51:50 AM »
Ok

yes the engine is decompressing , the flywheel spins over up to speed , that is no problem.

Maybe  I need somebody to swing the decompressor over while I am turning the crank . I am doing this by myself and the flywheel loses a bit of momentum as I reach over to the decompressor .  .

Yes the engine will need to be broken in but at the moment it is being naughty and it will not even start .

The injector timing may be out , yes I will look at that. I can hear the injector making the  "squawking " sound as I turn the crank over .

Could it be that the plug for where  the COV normally is , is the wrong size ? If the plug is too long it may be causing too high compression ? The plug looks to be really stuck in the head , I dont like the thought of removing it .

« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 02:53:36 AM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #187 on: April 30, 2015, 02:57:10 AM »
 and the flywheels take it over compression.

My problem is the flywheels do not take it over compression
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M61hops

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2015, 05:30:01 AM »
If the flywheels don't carry it over the compression TDC you need to spin it faster or add more flywheel mass.  Try lighter oil or invite your weight lifter friends over for a beer?  I added 2 brake drums to my Metro crankshaft to get rid of the flicker issue.  I first tried a heavy pulley on the generator shaft but the belt chirped on the combustion event even though it was as tight as I was willing to make it.  One brake drum seemed to do the trick but I had 2 and I like symmetry.  More flywheel makes starting much easier as well as curing flicker.  I wonder if the Indians scrimped on the amount of cast iron in their flywheels?  I wish I could find a set of SOM flywheels but they just don't exist in California.  There are a lot of 1 ton van and pickups in junk yards at least, and the old ones had heavy brake drums on the front.       Leland
I pray everyday giving thanks that I have one of the "fun" mental disorders!

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2015, 09:29:00 AM »
Good news

I got my roid running this arvo  ;D

I removed the COV plug ,I discovered that  the plug has a hemisphere machined on the end . Anyway , I tried starting the roid with the plug in different positions eg screwed out . It began to make smoke a bit, I was getting closer .. I screwed the plug almost all the way in, about 4 turns from the full .

I really swung the flywheels over faster than before ..... and I kept swinging on the crank handle as I let the decompressor go , it suddenly burst into life with black smoke and a chug chug . The problem is the crank handle got stuck on the crankshaft , it was swinging around wildly in a dangerous whirling fashion, I jumped out of the way as the roid was running . I managed to reach over and swing up the cut off lever - whew !

For the short time it was running ,about 60 seconds ,  it is very smooth and balanced even with the crank handle swinging around , no jumping or walking . thanks to 38ac's balancing method  ;)

re: adding weights brake drume  , sounds like a good idea
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 09:41:36 AM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

32 coupe

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2015, 04:53:21 PM »
Man, that's what we like to hear !!
I spent some time tweaking the starter handle to make sure I wouldn't have that
thing hang up. A little grease or oil will help.

Now you can start "fine tuning" !

Good job,
Gary

« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 07:35:01 PM by 32 coupe »
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Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #191 on: May 01, 2015, 02:10:25 AM »
Man, that's what we like to hear !!
I spent some time tweaking the starter handle to make sure I wouldn't have that
thing hang up. A little grease or oil will help.

Now you can start "fine tuning" !

Good job,
Gary



hi Gary
 
Yes I am happy now.   I thought for a while I had installed the idle gear in the wrong position  and the timing is out, but it is all OK .

For some reason this roid seems to want a COV fitted . I feel that a COV would make starting easier for me. 

The Australian roid parts guy does not have any COV in stock  , he says that Jkson did not fit a COV and that Powerannand is the only roid that comes with a COV as standard

I might have to by a COV from India , I see there is a seller on EBAY with COV's .

Mike 

Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

dieselgman

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #192 on: May 01, 2015, 02:36:46 AM »
All the true Lister clones from India came with the COV on the 6/1 models. By "true" I mean the ones who maintained a close match and parts interchange with the British designs. We even had them included with our 8/1s for awhile until it was apparent that most people did not want them. Many suppliers who were simply cutting corners, chose to leave that extra piece out of the package. We stock the part and you can also order direct from India (dozens of exporters). You certainly do not have to go through Patel (Anand) to get it.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 02:43:12 AM by dieselgman »
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32 coupe

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #193 on: May 01, 2015, 02:54:26 AM »
My engines don't have the COV's.

Once you start it a few times it will get eaiser.  You will start to
get a "feel for it" and then it becomes second nature.

They take a pretty good "rolling start" to run but mine will start first
try even after setting for months. I uaually pull it thru listening for the
injector"creak" and when I heard it I wind her up and off she goes !


Gary

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

Gippslander

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Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« Reply #194 on: May 01, 2015, 03:05:13 AM »
My engines don't have the COV's.

Once you start it a few times it will get eaiser.  You will start to
get a "feel for it" and then it becomes second nature.

They take a pretty good "rolling start" to run but mine will start first
try even after setting for months. I uaually pull it thru listening for the
injector"creak" and when I heard it I wind her up and off she goes !


Gary






Yes I will get the correct trick or method  to starting it  , just takes some practice  .

This is a interesting bit of info I found on a web site .  http://www.oldengine.org/members/culp/lister_diesel_miscellany.html

"In addition to the higher speed rating, the 8/1 and 16/2 dispensed with the compression changeover system. Apparently Lister's engineers figured that with a slightly lower compression ratio than the original starting ratio, the engine would start reliably and could run continuously at this ratio without the complication of changing compression ratios. The removable auxiliary chamber inserts and changeover valve were replaced with a simple plug. The compression ratio was fixed at 17.5:1. This was done without altering the volume of the combustion chamber, by shimming the cylinder at the base to produce .030" more clearance between the piston crown and head, leaving a little more air in the cylinder space at TDC. Thus, the cylinders, pistons and heads remained interchangeable between the older and newer engines."
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 03:09:17 AM by Gippslander »
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia