Jkson 6/1 rebuild

[Combustor]

Hi Gippslander,
                   To correct the exhaust valve timing, sounds like time to employ 38ac's method and just widen the tappet clearance till timing is close. If I understand correctly, as the error is similar on opening and closing, tappet adjustment should bring both events into line. Regards,
Combustor.

[BruceM]

+1  on increasing the valve lash to correct your timing per 38ac's method.

[listard-jp2]

I pulled the valves out of the head and the valve guides are  out of specification - by a few thou  , the valve stems are wobbly in the guides , more crap Indian work    I could make some new guides but not at the moment . Will do that later on .

That is a common problem on Indian CS Listeriods, also and more annoyingly the Indians also changed the design (increased the outside diameter, as well as other modifications to reduce production costs) of the valve guide so that a genuine Lister valve guide will not fit.

Unfortunately making new guides is your only realistic option, but at least it will give you the option of being able to incorporate a shrouded portion on the end of the exhaust valve guide, as per the original Lister guide, unlike the guides you presently have in the cylinder head.

[dieselgman]

I believe that some of our members have sleeved their existing guides and machined them back to a correct fit.

There are also replacement valve guides built to proper specifications... always best to reference exactly what you have when ordering though.

dieselgman

[listard-jp2]

I believe that some of our members have sleeved their existing guides and machined them back to a correct fit.

That is one option. But by the time you have machined to the the required outside diameter the sleeve wall thickness will be little more than a shim.

There are also replacement valve guides built to proper specifications... always best to reference exactly what you have when ordering though.

Do you have a part number, or could you let me know of a supplier, or better still do have any in stock, as I have a immediate requirement for two pairs.

[Gippslander]

Hi Gippslander,
                   To correct the exhaust valve timing, sounds like time to employ 38ac's method and just widen the tappet clearance till timing is close. If I understand correctly, as the error is similar on opening and closing, tappet adjustment should bring both events into line. Regards,
Combustor.

That is a very good way to get around the problem. I love this forum 

re: the valve guides , some of the professional engine rebuilders here use the "K line"  bronze guide liners. I think they ream out the old worn guide and then press in the new bronze liner ?

[dieselgman]

Do you have a part number, or could you let me know of a supplier, or better still do have any in stock, as I have a immediate requirement for two pairs.

What are your required dimensions please.

dieselgman

[listard-jp2]

^ OK, as a series of photographs here is what I need.

First up is a photo of a Listeriod guide freshly removed from the cylinder head (NOTE! Inlet and exhaust are identical)

http://mbryner.fatcow.com/listerenginegallery/main.php/main.php?g2_itemId=13689


Second, here is the Inlet valve guide showing how it needs to differ from a  Lister CS valve guide, where dimensions are not given they will be exactly as per the original Lister Valve guide

http://mbryner.fatcow.com/listerenginegallery/main.php/main.php?g2_itemId=13695

Third, here is the Exhaust valve guide showing how it needs to differ from a Lister CS valve guide, where dimensions are not given they will be exactly as per the original Lister Valve guide

http://mbryner.fatcow.com/listerenginegallery/main.php/main.php?g2_itemId=13698

I require Two inlet and Two exhaust valve guides, let me know your thoughts.

[dieselgman]

It does get a bit complex... so we are NOT trying to match OEM.  You need some modified guides to properly fit a Listeroid clone from India?

I can do some comparisons with our stock and also forward to our suppliers in India.

dieselgman

[listard-jp2]

so we are NOT trying to match OEM. 

Correct, I have no shortage of original Lister guides, but for reasons only known to them, the Indians increased the valve guide outside diameter slightly, so that it is now not possible to fit original specification Lister guides into Indian cylinder heads.

You need some modified guides to properly fit a Listeroid clone from India?

Not quite, I am experimenting with rebuilding an incomplete CS16-2 with Indian parts where necessary, the original cylinder heads were cracked between the valve seats (as the engine had been through cooled). hence I bought a pair of Indian heads as replacements, but the valve stem clearance was excessive. Hence why I need to replace these guides.
I would normally not entertain using Indian parts, but as an experiment I have used Indian parts wherever possible in its rebuild. I will trial this engine when complete, to see how the Indian parts perform that I will have fitted.

I can do some comparisons with our stock and also forward to our suppliers in India.

Thanks, I will await to hear from you.

[Gippslander]

I am having more problems with my gib keys .  The keyway in both of the flywheels is wider than the keyway in the crankshaft . I can feel a clunk as the loose flywheel rocks onto and off the gib key . 

This is my sneaky plan, with the flywheel sitting on the crankshaft and no gib key installed , I am using some bondo to fill the gap in the  keyways , I am making a casting of the shape the two halves of the keyway make . I will use the casting as a guide to make a new gib key , following the shape of the casting .

Mike

[32 coupe]

Mike,
Some guys here have had to shim the sides to make up the difference.
Gary

[George A]

Regarding those valve guides..........if I understand you correctly, the Indian guides are smaller in diameter which would be your first major hurtle. Is there anyplace where you can get them knurled so a good press fit can be achieved?

[dieselgman]

The valves and guides we stock - Indian clone parts. As in everything else we handle, the specification was given to match OEM parts interchange 100%. Of course, there is often no way of proving this short of ordering and comparing the actual parts. In most cases also doing assembly and testing with them in real service. It has been my experience that most of the complaints and issues come along with Indian reverse engineering that fails to match the original parts specs... there is no way anyone can claim that all Indian parts are bad because they happen to have experienced such issues before. We are happy with our suppliers overall... I hope we are able to remain so. The Indian parts do require an extra level of care and attention to detail during fitting that many old Lister mechanics and most modern engine mechanics are not used to dealing with. It is nice to be able to assemble well-known parts with well-known and reliable specifications, but we are faced with less than ideal circumstances in this day and time.

 

valve stem diameter 0.43"
exhaust guide body o.d. 0.74"
exhaust guide overall length 4.29"
exhaust guide machined interface length with head 1.76"
exhaust guide stem counterbore depth 0.58"

inlet guide body o.d. 0.74"
inlet guide overall length 3.48"
inlet guide machined interface length 1.53"

These guides fit the valve stems perfectly

Apparently the heads you have sourced are something off-spec... where did they originate? What supplier? It may be best to go back to that same supplier and complain about the poor fit and off-spec dimensions/designs. They may have the proper replacement parts for their stuff as well. We hope!

dieselgman

[38ac]

Back to your sloppy OEM guides, I believe what is going on with the Indian guides is they are making them "universal" for 7/16 and 11MM stems. All Indian valves I have been around are 11MM which makes for a sloppy fit in a guide sized for OEM 7/16 stems. Easiest/best solution is to knurl the guide and ream for proper fit even if you never use the tooling again. Both the knurls and reamers are on our Ebay all the time for cheap.