Author Topic: Something we never talk about - how to work.  (Read 15564 times)

GuyFawkes

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Something we never talk about - how to work.
« on: July 01, 2006, 01:51:37 PM »
As many of you know, I've got a website with a bunch of pix of my genuine start-o-matic.

Apart from a radiator conversion, I've done bugger all since getting it, that doesn't mean the "to do" list is empty, far from it.

Let me explain.

Over the years, being a time served engineer by day or being a biker by "night", one way or another everything you do is basically a "project".

By day you complete the project and get paid. By night you complete the project and get the odometer spinning.

By day anything that doesn't rapidly turn into payday is a waste. By night anything that doesn't rapidly turn into a roadworthy bike is a waste.

You can teach yourself welding, wrenching, machining, basic electrics, but unless you get project management down pat you're even more screwed than when you knew nothing, because without project management skills in place AND BEING APPLIED then the other skills are literally less than useless, because all they are good for is stripping something down into parts, which start to get lost, and five years later you still have a basket case which maybe someone else will take ff your hands for the price of a few beers.

Let me underline this point, I have NEVER, EVER, EVER seen an exception to this rule.

Let's take a look at me.

My bike is under a tarp, it needs new lights front and rear and some electrics sorting. A days work and maybe 120 quid cash. It has been exactly like that for 9 months now.

In the project management sense, everything is there and together, nothing is missing, nothing is going away or rotting, and the only reason I haven't finished it quite frankly was time and money, not just time and money to finish the job, but also money to insure it when done etc etc and time to ride it (like it or not, no bike comes close to 4 wheels when it comes to hauling stuff, bikes are PERSONAL transport only)

The lister is sat there in the driveway, I've got a big dynamo to fit, I've bought and have to collect a compressor to fit, I've got to source a hydraulic pump and a few bits and pieces, I've got to find or build a trailer, and of course I've got to strip and rebuilt the start-o-matic and bring her back to factory spec, but apart from the radiator I haven't done a bloody thing.

Where is the project management in that?

OK, I bought it with a burst barrel with frost damage, so fix that and make sure the problem never happens again by converting to radiator cooling, phase one done and complete, the whole plot still runs.

The shite old gentlemans collector trolley it is sat on is worth 50 quid to someone, and nothing to me, but it is still sat on it because when it comes to time to move it things go a million times easier on a trolley.

I'm basically not starting ANY work on it until garage space is available, and then time and funds.

No point stripping it down if I only have enough cash to powdercoat the cast iron base, and nothing else.

You need a plan, you need to budget every stage, and that means having pieces of paper with everything written down.

Until then I can have the whole plot running at 5 minutes notice and generating power.

------------------------------------

Let's look at the trailer part of the project.

1/ trailer has to take start-o-matic + fuel tank + wall box ----+--- dynamo + switchgear ---+--- compressor + receiver tank (to source) + fittings -----+----- hydraulic pump + tank + filters + cooler + valve chest ----+--- bugger it I may add a water pump too.

2/ all these things need to be laid out to they work together neatly, so I can work on any one of them while the rest is running, so they all fit in a compact and balanced for towing space, and of course with some form of clutch in between the various things.

3/ "trailer" isn't good enough, unless I want to be replacing wheel bearings every week it needs to jack up off the axle(s) when the lister is running

4/ etc etc etc may end up using an old electric milk foat and not a trailer....

so as you see, I can't even DO a project management piece of paper, because there are too many unknowns, so it would be complete madness to strip ANYTHING down at this stage, let alone do any work, and then find out I'm not doing things that way anyway.

---------------------------------------

there was another thread, 4 ways to mount a lister and gen head for belt driving, which way to go, various answers were given, and not knocking any of those answers, but not one answer mentioned the original lister start o matic, and you can bet your ass lister project managed that design and came up with the best possible answer, camshaft towards gen head, because if you're working on the camshaft it ain't running and they already sited the head low enough and far enough away access is never a problem, and you'll never spill oil on the head or belts their way either, and of course belts and cranking side are opposite to each other.


---------------------------------------

Hang around engineers at work and a phrase you will hear regularly is "what fucking idiot built / designed this crap?"

One you will hear a lot less often is "Do it properly, you might be the one who has to take it apart again."

And boy is there a lot of truth in that second one, and one thing that is certain about listeroids is this.

a/ The guys at the factory who assemble them know for a fact they are not going to be the guy taking it apart next.

b/ You guys buying them pretty much know for a fact you WILL be the one taking it apart, maybe for the next ten years.

and that is where your project management comes in, you need to plan that shit out, and most of that means doing it right the first time. and that means having the correct taps and dies to hand to dress up every single fastener you touch, and if necessary replace it.

that means having a plan where you don't strip and rebuild the whole thing, and not have it running because the one part you haven't sourced is an injection line.

that means having a plan where you don't strip and find you can't rebuild because you don't have gaskets and don't know how to make gaskets

that means having a plan where you can strip something and assemble it months later, because you letter punched the flywheels so you know which is left and which is right, same (as in marked somehow) for tappets, pushrods, valves, etc etc etc, and in the meantime everything is wrapped in clean grease paper, labelled, and stored, so even if it is moved *** you still aren't in the shit.

*** ask me about rebuilding 16v92 detroits where unknown to me some one had swapped around the injector control rods, and listen to the detroit boys in here go "ah, yes....."  ( and THEN we found that the main fuel cutoff was a leaky gate valve....  flaps? they don't work when they aren't fitted... the worst and most embarrasing job I ever did in my life...)

that means not wasting a limited budget on powdercoating the externals and then discovering you don't have enough money or time to have a skilled machinist clean up indian engineering on the internals

=======================

BIGGEST LESSON in project management is this, Time is a resource, just like Money, it is finite and expensive and in short supply.

You may thing your time is your own and worth nothing, this is not true.

Get sloppy with your time and it will inevitably follow that you get sloppy with the time of anyone else you employ, whether they are a machinist, shed builder, crane, powdercoater, welder, you name it, and THEY WILL CHARGE YOU for your sloppiness.

Those people you know who have "bad luck" and get "friday jobs" and so on, they all have poor or non existent project management skills.

----------------------------------------------------

More on this later, there is a board member I want to speak to privately first and ask their permission to use them as an example.

--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2006, 03:41:52 PM »
Planning is an act of safety:
Starting and finnishing a job, knowing when not to start a job and setting game plan for the job are as important not just to get things done.

Proper tools
Parts
Knolege, skills
Awareness of your suroundings
Working in a safe manner
Clearly defined goals

Do these things and things get done right.....

Doug
 

cujet

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2006, 11:59:01 PM »
Prof. Fawkes,

Spoken like a true engineer. Plan and engineer the work to be done.

However, those of us who have a project and do not fully understand it just jump in with both feet. Then we figure out what needs to be done. Not being afraid of the work ahead of you is a big one. Expecially if mechanically competent.

Guy, I work in aviation. As such, some projects are so big and difficult to understand, we just start on them. Then we order what is needed, tooling included. Otherwise, the work would never get done. It could take years to study the how, what and why of a project before starting.

Mechanical confidence is necessary.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

Doug

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 03:23:10 AM »
Perhaps there are times when Jumping in with both feet is the only way to solve a problem...

But I don't think thats the best way to aproach a problem. Everything can be planned to some small degree.

I can't do that, if my handlers were to see me starting a job that way they would string me up by my swinging parts. I can't just show up to a job and start pulling wires out.

Is the machine in a zero energy state? ( remove all sources of power, fuel, stored energy like compressed air or charged hydraulic accumulators )
Are there safety hazards such as poor footing or an untidy work place?
Do I need an personal protectice equipment?
Are my tools and test equipment in good order?
Am I working in a safe and productive manner that will not creat a dangerous condition and can I continue to my task and leave the area in a safe manner upon completion?

I know this sounds extreme but think about it this is planning.

Now examin the job what do you need to do and is there anythng special I need to bring or procedures to follow ect....

Hey you can expand on this at home, think about your lawn.
Check your mower beofre starting
Look for toys or stones on the grass
Safety glasses, earplugs, gloves, shoes
A defined pattern to the mow ect.

Ok maybe this sounds extreme a little bit laughable but it most people have some sort of plan before they anything, most people call this common sence. However if you expand a little on it and make a true plan any task can be made to run more smoothly and suprises reduced.

Doug

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 06:44:29 AM »
I agree;
When I start a new task that I haven't done before, and care about the result, I try to figure out how to do it.
But there comes a point where you just have to get started. Frequently (in these cases) I find out that much of the planning was a waste because I concentrated on the wrong aspect. I would have been better off to get someone to show me, but then there is that ego, or it just isn't practical to get help.
OR maybe it seemed so easy because I HAD planned, and some subconcience planning had occured as well?

About that lawn mower: I was walking along the street the other day. This guy is mowing his lawn; "Look out", he tells me, then pushes his mower into the weeds & gravel! Hit me in the shin with a rock! WTF! He's the one who is supposed to be careful! I'm in the street trying to stay out of the way.
Scott E
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Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

GuyFawkes

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 01:32:18 PM »

OR maybe it seemed so easy because I HAD planned, and some subconcience planning had occured as well?


Yup

With respect, cujets post about some jobs just requiring you to jump in with both feet is rubbish, even absolutely no warning emergency  situations have planning, they are called "drills" and firemen and suchlike use them all the time.

Projects too big to plan?



Designed in the UK, by draughtsmen, on blueprint paper. Before we go any further, no two were alike, these were bespoke designs.

The components were manufactured in the UK, including rivets, inside you have boilers, triple expansion steam engines, the bucket ladder, huge pumps, spiral separators, conveyors, dc and ac power generation, more complex than a ship, there is no cargo space, it is ALL machinery.

The components were never test assembled, not possible, and containers weren't the thing then, so everything is crated and sent to southampton where it is loaded onto a couple of ships, then it heads across the high seas to singapore.

Unloaded in singapore and trucked into the malayan peninsula, then up roads cut into the jungle to the spot where tin or can be found, gangs of hundreds of coolies and a steam shovel dig a "dry dock" to assemble it in, ready for flooding when complete and to start work.

No infrastructure, if you need a crane or scaffolding it better be buildable out of bamboo. No ac power, no nothing.

When the crates start arriving in the middle of the jungle you start assembling them, plates and beams to rivet together to make the hull, plates and tube assemblies to rivet together to make the boilers, assemble the steam engines, etc etc etc, all from plans, all never been test fitted, all in the middle of bum fuck nowhere so if even one part is missing the whole show stops for a few months.

It's quite an engineering challenge, and of course there is a whole other financial challenge in the whole thing, it has to cost out and show a profit.

As it happens at that time there was a communist emergency in malaya, mum had a S&W 38, dad had a Luger (I was too young at that time to carry a firearm) shopping was done in chauffer driven ford mercury with armour plate and slits for windows, only car that would carry the weight, villages (campongs) were fenced and guarded, you were timed in and out of each campong so the next day if you didn't turn up there knew where you went missing.

On the domestic front the houses (which were beautiful) had water, no windows, just "chicks" (roller blinds) and shutters, patios you polished every day to keep the snakes out, food kept in a cupboard with legs sat in jars of kerosene to keep the ants out, cooking done on kerosene wick, lighting by kerosene or electric, no refrigeration, if you were a manager you got an electric fan (no, I'm not kidding)

You'd have maybe half a dozen "white" men, meaning like my dad, been to the world famous (for mining, esp hard rock mining) dalcoath tech, later camborne school of mines, and had steam and electric ticket etc, and a crew of mainly chinese fitters and so on, working shifts, first you built em and then you ran em

that was planning, and considering the era and the technology you can't say it was a small project, fact is the world is too small now, you couldn't find projects like that any more, nowhere is that remote in time, except perhaps the moon, and there aren't any communist terrorists on the moon.

--------------------------

an apprenticeship, whether formal time served or just years at the coal face, is all about learning project management, even if you don't know it at the time.

Lister(oid) single cylinder diesel engine, as simple as anything can get, doesn't require any less project management than rebuilding a 12 cylinder engine, which is just more complex, not more complicated, you've got 24 sets of tappets to adjust, not 2.

End of my road there is a garage, lot of people said he was crap, when I wanted to some work doing on my car I took it there after we moved here, he's been doing my cars for 4 years now, can't fault them in any way, why did I go there? his workshop floor was spotless, and jobs around the place were obviously project managed and done in stages.

Mate of mine before he lost his arm was a master builder, he would talk about a "clean building site" which sounds dumb when all a layman can see is mud and piled of material and equipment, but it was the same thing.

Military have it down to a fine art, even teach you how to dress and wipe your ass, but they can get your rations and ammo to point x on the map.

==========================

Current example is NASA and the shuttle, which sounds like an ongoing cluster fuck with admins and managers screwing the pooch, prolly one of the most complex projects you can imagine, but it is broken down into sections so everyone manages their own bit.

Trouble now is you have engineers in charge of their own sections saying "I ain't signing off on that" and managers maybe over riding them because they are looking at risk assesment, if say the risk of the next shuttle blowing up is x per cent it is acceptable and we launch, if it is x +1 then it is unacceptable and we don't, you get a struggle between what amounts to different ideologys within the same system.

They are project managing by shipping extra supplies to the space station as an alternative, and readying a spare shuttle.
I suspect the acceptable risks are a lot lower than the apollo days, just like the iraq body bag count is lower than the somme days (anniversary yesterday)

---------------------------------------------------

One way or another I've spent most of my life working around diesel engines powering generators and dynamos and suchlike, every boat has them, loads of houses in out of the way places have them, and I'm sticking here to the small stuff, 25 Kw or less, like most of you here will be using, where owner / chief engineer / chief electrician / fitter / end user are all the same person.

There are a lot of perceived dangers, like rotating machinery and external flywheels, but every time I ever saw someone on crutches or in plaster or being rushed to hospital it was none of those, if was because something fell, or moved, or shifted, and it wasn't jacked or slung or braced properly, all totally avoidable and all a total lack of project management.

I've seen a lot of DC injuries, but again these were never was people assume the dangers are, they were non vented banks, brine = chlorine gas, flinching out of the way or a short into something that hurt you, etc.

I've seen a lot of AC injuries, but again they weren't from workiing on the head per se, but because of bad wring that didn't isolate cables properly, leak backs and earth loops.

I've seen a lot of general injuries, because the installation was so bad and the work area so dirty they slipped and took all their body weight on a dull cherry exhaust header, or the access was piss poor so lage weight crushes fingers etc etc etc.

I've seen a lot of time and money wasted because installation was shit, people think wet exhausts and joints will never leak, so they run them over the gen head, people save a buck by gas axing a hole and running hose through it and no hose mounts, instead of a bulkhead nipple and properly mounted seamless pipe, drop trays mounted to close under the sump you can't drop the sump.


NONE OF YOU GUYS (as far as I am aware) is sticking their lister in a boat or some tiny enclosed space, you all know it weights a shit lot, most of you seem to be making a small ladder frame in steel to mount it, why not use a bit extra steel, make a proper base that extends outside the crankshaft ends?  Why not bolt a frame on to of that which you can use to cover the engine and also use as a lifting gantry, if you bolt instead of welding you can always remove it if need be for access. Why not raise the whole plot ten inches and put in a drip tray? Why not use the frame to route some proper plumbing, maybe put all your service and access points on the same side?







That kind of stuff actually doesn't cost much more than a simple skid, and it saves money because you can do a lot of things properly, and that means reliability, all it takes is a little planning and project management.

Of course about now that purpose built shed with a 30" doorway doesn't seem like such a good idea... 8)
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

lgsracer

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 04:42:42 PM »
The 7 P's of project success:  Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.  This is universally true.

By the way here is a link page for bucket line dredges used in gold mining.

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa072999b.htm


GuyFawkes

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 05:23:33 PM »
The 7 P's of project success:  Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.  This is universally true.

By the way here is a link page for bucket line dredges used in gold mining.

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa072999b.htm



I have some sort of mental block and can never remember the 7p's, or the rainbow....

must dig out and scan some pics of dad's dredges (got video here ripped from old 8mm stock) cos killinghall was the world's biggest, there was one other the same size in australia.

--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

mobile_bob

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2006, 05:35:34 PM »
being a diesel mechanic and after having worked for various dealerships, and shops which were commission based
i adopted the following

if the job is a one hour job, take 5 minutes to get properly setup to do the job, this also means taking the time to
plan what tools you will need, pull them and get them into position.

Time is money period, I proved that not only to myself but my employers as i ended up either number one or a close
second consistantly month after month in hours sold.

now that i am older i find that planning is even more important, physically the work i do is very demanding on the back
believe you me i plan my lifts vary carefully.

i have employed mechanics who refuse to plan but rather just jump right in, they usually always ended up taking apart far
more than they had too to effect the repair (which took more time), ended up making more frequent trips for tools (taking more
time), and without planning or making a parts list as the work processed, they made more trips to the parts dept (more wasted time)
made more mistakes, stripped bolts, broken parts, (more lost time)
This type of guy might survive at a commissioned shop, but he will never make any real money.

"PLAN YOUR WORK, then " WORK YOUR PLAN"

lister, petter, cushman scooter or whatever is no different.
Even if you figure your time to be worthless, broken parts due to being in too much of a hurry cost money
lack of planning when ordering parts, "Awe shit, i forgot to order this along with that"  will at least cost you more shipping
lack of planning proper and safe operating conditions could cost you or someone you know injury or death.

An example

i was 13 years old and purchased a basket case cushman scooter, dad said ok (because he figured i would never get the engine
derusted and back together, ya right)

long story short i got the engine together and after about i million kicks it was running. now the planning

the 13 yo mind and quick check preflight, (no planning)

1. shroud on flywheel,   no.... not necessary
2. brake linkage connected.. no.... who really needs it.
3. engine kill... no... never needed one on the go kart.
4. throttle,, well kinda.... seems a bit stiff.... prolly ok....

5. engine running ,,, ya,,,, check

i think most of you can see what happened next....
depress clutch, pull into low,, let out clutch,,,, no movement,,, crack throttle a bit........
yes full throttle,,,, right into the back of the house,
lays down on left side, no flywheel shroud, engine running at full throttle,
flywheel make a fine blender and chews up leg real nice.
kill engine by chokeing it to death with my hand.

this kind of planning or lack thereof, is down right painfull, and can get you killed.
i would like to think i plan better now than at 13, what surprises me is how many folks dont.

I'm with Guy on this one.
bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

cujet

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 07:24:06 PM »
Prof Fawkes,

All good points indeed!

I am fairly sure you see my point too.

Not saying that planning is not necessary. But rather that an understanding of mechanical jobs may be enough to jump right in when necessary. 5 years of formal school and plenty of additional training has gotten me to this mental state. Such as it may be.

I am good about finishing what I start, and i always strive to do it well.

Also, unforseen issues are harder to plan for. That is where experience comes in. Experience only comes from doing.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

GuyFawkes

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 09:44:37 PM »
Well, as promised / threatened I've spoken to the person in question and have their permission. As you may have guessed, it is andy / t19

Right.

1/ Andy basically doesn't know me from shit, so he is in a place many of you can empathise with, handed over a bunch of money to some guy overseas, now to wait to see what if anything turns up. Project management in this is he prolly knows more about me from posts on here than most of you know about an indian supplier, and he's spoken to me on the phone.

2/ Andy is buying a genuine lister start-o-matic, slightly tired and a couple of ancilliaries missing, but the engine runs and the old diesel saying of "if it starts it ain't that bad" hold true. Project management in this is he is buying a genuine lister, things can only be so bad, he knows for a fact for eample all 3/8" UNC threads were cut properly in appropriate materials.

3/ Shipping, this is where andy and I differ, and this may be down to experience or maybe just attitude.

Project management says he has to get it from where it is, which is a choice of scotland, here in the south west, or southampton port, to his home, how do you do it? lots of choices.

Let's start with the facts.

a/ The vendor in scotland has slung the whole thing on a europallette

and included in the price is fork lift onto a truck for delivery here, truck doesn't have a hiab or caddy fork lift.

b/ Easy enough to divert delivery from here to the shippers in southampton, who will have a forklift.

c/ Shippers will load it into a container as a part load with whatever else is going canada ways.

So let's look at the problems.

a/ If it comes here and I get it unloaded, does the shipper have a hiab or caddy forklift on the vehicle they will send to collect it?

b/ Is it fully insured with a policy that will actually pay out an agreed sum?

c/ Is it "shipping ready" in such a way that shippers will not damage it?

d/ Is is "shipping ready" in the sense that it won't be damaged by whatever it shares a container with?

e/ Is it "shipping ready" in the sense that it won't damage anything it shares a contained with?

These are basically money and risk questions.

Here are possible answers.

Option 1

Ship it as is on the eruopallette, simplest cheapest and fastest option, provided nothing goes wrong.*

*(When we came back from the far east by sea perhaps 20% of our goods were damaged dockside by unloading)

Option 2

Spend about 50 UK pounds on a basic steel channel ladder subframe for the cast iron base which is fork lift ready.

Option 3

Same as option 2 but add another 50 UK pounds for a wire cage for the whole shebang.

Option 4

Since we are making a steel cradle, and since it could be fitted in situ with a steel cradle, take the opportunity to make a proper, as wide as the crankshaft, steel cradle which is fork lift ready, maybe 150 UK pounds

Option 5

Same as option 4, but add another 50 Uk pounds for a wire cage for the whole shebang.


Project management.

Option 1, cheapest but most risk, to lister and to compo for anything damaged by the lister inside the container.

Option 2, increased expense, but limits damage to anything piled on top of lister or stacked beside it, and to anything damaged by lister inside container.

Option 3, increased expense again, but no damge to lister or to anything by lister.

Option 4/5. increased expense again, except expense is not scrap when item arrives and is surplus, and only additional expense is shipping extra weight, mebbe 200 lbs, and cost of steel and fabrication in UK vs canada prices, likely to be minimal.

------------------------------------

If it was me or somebody elected me as god on this one it would be option 5 every time, and knowing the dimensions of the cradle I could make a start on pouring the bed etc and booking the forklift or crane for arrival day, and just sling the thing right in where it is going to live, knowing if I ever want to move it again, piece of piss. Plus, I know no way it is either going to get damaged in transit or damage anything else, after all, even if the insurance pay up, it's not like it is simply a case of wandering down to the stores department for a replacement item.

The indians essentially use option 3, but in wood.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2006, 03:40:12 AM »
A young man, new hire asked me one day about the "proceedure files", these are row upon row of file cabnets containing files on standard jobs or specialty jobs. They contain egineering details, as built prints in some cases tagging proceedures and time studies many of these are very old files.

"So why do we keep such huge pile of crap that no one looks at? "Is there a proccedure for wiping your backside in there?". My answere was simple there is a proceedure for every job we ever cripled or killed a man with here. I have a limp and flash burns on my arm because I learned the hard way...

S - see
U - understand
P - plan
A - act

Neil George 5 point safety system.

1. Preparation and approach to work
2. Are working place & equipment in good order
3. Is work being done properly
4. Do an act of safety
5. Did I understand instructions.

These are single page booklets I carry along with my personal log book on the job used as a giudline to reinforce the idea of safe organized work and for proper recording of information I may need at a later date.

This takes time perhaps as much as 1/2 an hour on large job but it forces you to look at what your about to do and think about the process before hand and this saves wrench time....

Doug

Jackpine Savage

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2006, 04:25:30 AM »
Option 1

Ship it as is on the eruopallette, simplest cheapest and fastest option, provided nothing goes wrong.*

*(When we came back from the far east by sea perhaps 20% of our goods were damaged dockside by unloading)



Well I sure can relate to this one. I was supposed to take delivery of a 6/1 Listeroid and a generator head last week. I drove 150 miles to the shipping terminal and found the Listeroid in the Indian packing crate sitting on a broken 4x4 pallet and some loose shrink wrap. No generator head or spare parts to be found. When I contacted the shipper he said my generator ended up in Texas, and 4 other orders ended up in various wrong places. 

GuyFawkes

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2006, 10:23:33 AM »

This takes time perhaps as much as 1/2 an hour on large job but it forces you to look at what your about to do and think about the process before hand and this saves wrench time....


I'm going to have to give up smoking in a few weeks, been doing it to long and it is unhealthy and expensive, but.....

we always had a ritual, stop at every stage of a job, sit down, have a drink and a fag (cigarette) and just sit there looking at the job.

like as not that is the exact moment the person who hired you swings by, but the point is I've lost track of how many major and minor problems were caught during the fag break and contemplation.

Doug uses a book, I use a cigarette, don't matter what you use as long as you have something that amounts to a ritual.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

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Re: Something we never talk about - how to work.
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2006, 06:44:34 PM »
Actualy you might be amused to know I also use the cigarette method of contemplation lol.

My Old Foreman once told me me " before you go into one of those high voltage switches or ground any power system turn off the power, check for voltage, have a smoke then check everything again before you reach in there and put on the grounds".

I have to quit smoking too......

Doug