Head Gaskets Weeping

[BruceM]

Folks, I wondered if someone has some new experience to share?  I remember Troy was thinking about sodium silicate, and Jack was trying some aviation gasket sealer.  Any results to report?

I used silicone sealant on my gasket, which worked great initially, but then I removed the head about 8x in the process of measuring head clearance and getting my cylinder milled and checking head clearance again.  I didn't reapply the sealant to the gasket edges- which in retrospect I should have done. Now it's weeping all around the head gasket.

Bruce M
Snowflake, AZ
Metro 6/1

[Doug]

Work hardening becames an issue when dealing with used gaskets. The more squeeze the copper the less it wants to crush down and seal properly....

Doug

[hotater]

  The aviation gasket sealer is working very well.  I re-torqued once at about a hundred hours and it's still going.  I've already peeled a new gasket back and painted it with thinned sealer so it's ready when needed.

[BruceM]

Thanks for the report, Hotater!  What is the brand and can you suggest a source?
Bruce M

[hotater]

Bruce--

It's a NAPA-Permatex product called  "Aviation Form a gasket sealant liquid"  item# 765-1210.  Be sure to buy a can of denatured alcohol for thinning.

[BruceM]

Thanks Hotater!  I'm sure my local NAPA can get it for me. 

I suspect that part of my leak problem is due to the cylinder liner being excessively raised relative to the top of the cylinder. I don't think the cylinder was cut properly (I know it was not square from end to end and was too long to meet spec on head clearance).

 I have to pump water for grading tomorrow, so this morning I put in a less used (and dry) head gasket and put high temp silicone around all the water channels and on the interior edges of the gasket in the water channels.  Hopefully this will hold until I can get some new head gaskets. 

Thanks Again!
Bruce M
Metro 6/1
Snowflake, AZ

[cujet]

I just tried Hotater's trick. It was super easy to apply the mix of denatured alcohol and aviation gasket sealer. I mixed at a 4 to 1 ratio alc/sealant. For whatever reason, that is a good combo. The alcohol soaks into the head gasket very well. On mine, it soaked to the other side quite readily. Other solvents did not soak through at all. HMMMM!

By the way, my new head gaskets were not glued or pressed or stuck together in any way. What holds it together is only the fire ring crimp. It was very easy to apply the mix internally with a paint brush, I just lifted the copper sheet. No sweat! I had visions of the asbestos sticking to the copper (like a used gasket), but that was not a problem at all. I guess the new gaskets are way to go with this method.

After torquing the head, aviation gasket sealer was seen on the outside of the gasket all the way around. And it looked to be seeping out through the middle. If this is in fact the case, it may be the way to fix the problem. 

So simple!

Chris

[solarguy]

I have been unable to try the Sodium Silicate "stop-leak" fix as I have just purchased 7 acres and a "new" house.

It needs everything and I'm doing it myself.  My poor Lister feels abandoned.

I fear it will be 3-6 months before I get the new place livable enough to do up the two Listers properly.

Ultimately, this will be a good thing, as I have no close neighbors and plenty of room for a new shop, a new engine room, etc etc etc.

Will keep you all posted as things progress.

Finest regards,


troy

[BruceM]

Thanks, Chris for reporting your experience with Hotater's method. Interesting that the alcohol thinner is the secret to permeating the asbestos.

Troy, best wishes for your new home and shop projects.  Big ones can be a bit daunting at the outset!

I'm working on site grading in preparation for digging footings for my new off grid home and shop and the "tunnel to the light"  looks about a year long. Since the Lister will be working generating power and compressed air for the project, it's going to get more attention.

Bruce M

[hotater]

Bruce,  You'll find the more you rely on your Lister the important the little problems become.   I've always been a procrastinator of some renown, but with an engine your attention is on the NOW, not later!

What's really frustrating is to have something you REALLY want to get done in a certain time frame, but the Lister, like the 'Murphy' that hangs around us all,  **knows** you're planning something fun....

[BruceM]

You hit the nail on the head, Hotater.  The Lister will be a mainstay of my operation and down time will be a bugger.  It already is!

After just a few days use, the back up used head gasket with high temp silicone around the water passages and edges is starting to leaK.  Grrrr.

 Heading to town for new stock gaskets from Utterpower at the Post Office (what would I do without George B!), and I'll be stopping at NAPA too hoping they stock the aviation gasket sealer!

Bruce M
Snowflake, AZ
Metro 6/1

[BruceM]

I sealed a new gasket with the NAPA aviation gasket goop a day ago per Hotater's method. Like Cujet, I'm impressed.  It wicked well and the asbestos was easily saturated.  The gasket faces cleaned up easily with alcohol.

I put it in today but for insurance I sprayed the new copper gasket faces with some NAPA copper head gasket spray, and installed it when tacky.  Won't put water in her till tomorrow AM. 

My cylinder liner is not as raised as I thought, so I'm hoping this will solve my weeping problem.

Thanks Hotater!

Bruce M

[Halfnuts]

Guys, the Permatex-thing sounds promising, but I was always told that you NEVER seal a head gasket with any kind of goop.  I used to always use Permatex to seal one side of all the gaskets on my motorcycles, and it worked GREAT at minimizing oil leaks, but it was considered common knowledge back 30 years ago that you never use it on a head gasket.  Not wanting to ask a stupid question, I never asked why. 

In this case I'm wondering what the downside might be.  I know that air-cooled motorcycle (and light aircraft?) heads tend to run pretty hot and maybe the sealer was thought to cook and/or interfere with heat transfer to the cylinder.  However in a liquid cooled engine, especially something with as much metal as a Listeroid has, I don't think it would be a problem.  Your thoughts?

Halfnuts

[rsnapper]

Halfnuts, your theory sounds logical to me. Listeroids have massive cylinders and heads with water passages. I always heard the same thing about head gaskets but also never asked.

Rick

[hotater]

  Well, being a newbie at engines, I'd never heard anything about head gaskets, except they wern't suposed to blow water in your ear when starting.   
I analyzed the proproblem and figured either the webs between cooling passages were too narrow, or the composite material inside the gasket wasn't strong enough.
    Since I can fix one and not the other, the shellac seemed the way to go.  So-far, knock wood, I have nearly twice the time on the treated gasket as anything up to now, with no leaks.  I'm afraid to mess with it!