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Author Topic: British Container Shipment  (Read 31583 times)

contaucreek

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »
Sorry - I didn't mean to offend anyone. 

 All is well here,

 I in fact am the one who owes an apology to the forum for blowing off SOOT in public

Butch

Fixed it up for you Butch  ;D
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listard-jp2

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2014, 06:09:22 PM »
You might be able to mount the new wheels slightly outboard of the worn spots on your crankshaft (if needing to absolutely contain your costs), and yes they are correctly matched to your engine for external balancing.

I cant see that working too well, particuarly if it is the intention to drive off the rim of the flywheel (as per the original SOM flywheels), because the pull of the belt will greatly increase the stress on the crankshaft.   

listerdiesel

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2014, 06:11:26 PM »
The trouble with this whole situation is partly due to the 'Gold Rush' to get old iron shipped the North Americas.

Engines that were selling in the UK for $75 to $150 were suddenly making silly money on ebay, and it got worse.

Every old bit of Lister iron that could be made to stand up straight in front of a digital camera was sought out, and the more that sold, the more questionable became the quality of the items on sale.

The engine I sold to Mike had new pistons and liners fitted, I checked and they were. Others weren't as honest, unfortunately.

To give you an idea of how the market went, I sold those 6 engines that I am holding for under $2000 the lot. I have 10-12 years of storage on them, plus changing from wooden pallets to steel stillages. I know of one guy who is asking about shipping 6 SOM sets to the USA now, and I'd imagine the price per unit is probably what I sold all six of mine for.

To a degree, it is only the money being made on these as they change hands and countries that is driving this market, left alone they would still be a fairly popular but not often rallied diesel engine.

You don't see that many at rallies over here as they are not considered a suitable engine, plus so many have gone that there is a premium on their heads now when they show up.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 06:14:07 PM by listerdiesel »

listerdiesel

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2014, 06:12:09 PM »
Duplicate

listard-jp2

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2014, 06:19:06 PM »
I know of one guy who is asking about shipping 6 SOM sets to the USA now, and I'd imagine the price per unit is probably what I sold all six of mine for.

Is it possible to change the operation of these sets from 240 VAC @ 50 Hz to 110 VAC @ 60 Hz ?. Because if not, I would think one of these sets would be of limited use in America.


millman56

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2014, 07:39:57 AM »
You might be able to mount the new wheels slightly outboard of the worn spots on your crankshaft (if needing to absolutely contain your costs), and yes they are correctly matched to your engine for external balancing.

I cant see that working too well, particuarly if it is the intention to drive off the rim of the flywheel (as per the original SOM flywheels), because the pull of the belt will greatly increase the stress on the crankshaft.   

A quick and usually foolproof test  which shows when flywheels have been run loose on an apparently solid fixture  is to rotate the engine by hand whilst  observing the runout at the flywheels rim,  more than 0.010" often indicates that the the key is pulling the flywheel out of true due to excessive bore to shaft clearance, the other suspect is that the c-shaft is bent in the outer main bearing area. 
In a case of very little runout it`s possible to insert shim steel to counter this and bring the flywheel true,  this would be considered a bodge by many but combined with a well fitting key it is effective.

Mark.

listeroil

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2014, 02:22:31 PM »
Regarding worn crankshafts where the flywheel fits. I have had one welded up and ground back down to size by my local engine reconditioning firm. Couldn't feel the joint fitted back in the main bearings perfectly. Cost me £100 about 7 years ago to get both sides welded up and ground and the big end ground as well. Any good machine shop should be able to do this.

Mick

listard-jp2

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2014, 07:10:58 PM »
Post removed due to incorrect assumptions
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 07:32:23 PM by listard-jp2 »

listerdiesel

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2014, 07:29:40 PM »
Bear in mind that My CE sold to Mike Liserby is not the 8/1 being discussed previously by 'bschwartz'.

Just to save any confusion  ;D

millman56

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2014, 08:18:40 PM »
Regarding worn crankshafts where the flywheel fits. I have had one welded up and ground back down to size by my local engine reconditioning firm. Couldn't feel the joint fitted back in the main bearings perfectly. Cost me £100 about 7 years ago to get both sides welded up and ground and the big end ground as well. Any good machine shop should be able to do this.

Mick

Mick, 
Did you replace the flywheels or had the majority of wear taken place on the shaft?

Mark.

listeroil

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2014, 09:44:04 PM »
Mark

Yes I did replace the flywheels. I was lucky that I had a spare engine with a snapped crank so I was able to use flywheels from that engine. The bores were quite worn on the old flywheels.  Unfortunately I did not keep them.

Mick

Bottleveg

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2014, 02:24:04 AM »
For anyone who missed the boat on this........... Let me tell you how my "buy a cheap Lister and get it shipped with a bunch of others" has gone so far.

Four years ago, I gave Dr. Death (Mike Lisenby) $1000.  That was $500 for a REAL Lister CS, and $500 which was my share of the shipping costs.
My engine was collected, and I recieved a serial number, and was told by the seller (Mark LeRiche) through Mile Lisenby "Tell Brett he has a good engine. Apparently it had a service by Lister in '06, new piston, liner, bearings, mains and whatever else they could charge for! "

Then there was $150 here and there for pickup/delivery to Blackpool etc.

Well....... 4 years later, and more moving/storage charges, another $500 shipping (my share of the container) but wait, I thought you already paid that......
Who knows what happened to that money, so I paid it again (this time to Gary)  ******All hale Gary for pulling this off!!!******

Last week I drove 1800 miles round trip (2897 Kilometers for the rest of the world) to finally go pick up my REAL Lister.  The trip was made on WVO, so I didn't have to pay for fuel.  i would have had it shipped, but I couldn't afford to put more money into this.

..........
..........

It's gonna take a lot more money  :(

My 8/1 is crap.
I've started pulling everything apart, and so far have discovered the following parts in need of repair or replacement.
The beautiful SOM flywheels are loose.  Looks like they were ran with loose keys, and the center is buggered.  These will probably need to be bored out to accept QD bushings in the future.  Gary pointed this out upon pickup, and was kind enough to sell me 2 Indian 8/1 flywheels (several hundred more into this engine).
OK, I can live with that .............it's only a little more in the scheme of things.
BUT, now I take it apart and find the crank is a bit worn where the flywheels were.  I hope I can clean things up enough to get the indian flywheels to fit properly.
One side of the crank had felt, but not the other... I've been able to remove one bushing, but the other is stuck.  It is held in place by the oil thrower ring which someone was kind enough to hammer into place with a screwdriver.  This peaned the thrower onto the crank.  I guess I'll have to cut it off.
OH, by the way.... can someone tell me exactly how much rust is OK to have INSIDE the engine?........ That's what I thought... CRAP.

The governor is rusted stuck.  The cam wouldn't come out without drilling the end tapered pin first.  The rocker bushings and shaft are worn out.
The piston rings are glued to the piston with crud.... That doesn't really matter, because the piston is scored up, and has a hollow burned in the top.  These aluminum pistons are flat top (or it used to be), so it needs to be replaced.
Oh, did I mention that the cylinder (which looks scored too) is labeled as .030 so standard parts wont fit.  That's if I can salvage it anyway.
The injection pump is gummed up, but may be servicable with a good soak.
I haven't really looked at the cylinder head yet, but assume the worst with it too.
The inside of the engine is filled with some rust, and the thickest gooiest sludge I've ever seen.  It is like a combination of gear oil, bearing grease, water, and glue.

On the bright side, I finally have a real Lister crank case to start an engine build with, and it only cost me 4 years and about $2000 so far  :(

What is that?  You missed out on the shipping container?  You may be the lucky one.



This is interesting! I supplied you with
“A complete working engine in used condition with no known faults”.
No new parts were fitted. The cylinder had been re-bored, re-chromed and a new piston and rings fitted, by Lister, at some time during its working life, but this would not have been done in 2006, so I would'nt have advided that.  I believe I sent you a video of the engine running? The engine number was 1179818. Do you have this engine with the correct flywheels?
I also believe I advised you that an engine of this age (50 years) ideally required stripping, checking and re-assembly. Wear items inevitably need changing.
The flywheel keys were removed and left loose, as instructed by Mike, so the flywheels could be removed for shipping. The flywheels were tight when I received the engine and did not show any signs of being ‘spun’ when removed. I have no way of knowing if the engine has been started after delivery to Blackpool.
Fuel and oil was drained for shipping but the crankcase had not been cleaned out.
A charge, at cost, was made for supplying an export pallet, bolting the engine to it and arranging a haulage company to collect it from me and deliver to Blackpool.
I must stress that I had no control over the engines security; storage or treatment after it was delivered to Blackpool. My only involvement with the Blackpool site was to facilitate the independent removal and shipping of some of the engines when the container shipment ‘fell apart’ and I gladly did this free of charge.
One thing that did dismay me was that the engines were stored outside. My original brief from Mike was that they were going to ‘inside, secure storage’. Your engine was delivered to Blackpool in July 2010 so how many years un-secure storage did it have in the UK’s wind and snow? Prior to this it had spent it’s life indoors as part of a generator unit.
     Mark.

dieselgman

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2014, 03:16:33 AM »
Yes, Brett received the exact correct engine 1179818. I posted the pictures of this engine taken after loading it on his truck at the very beginning of this topic. Take a look if you have any doubt. The visible external damages on this engine had absolutely nothing to do with being stored outside at Blackpool. To my knowledge, none of this equipment has been run or otherwise tampered with after delivery except for being bolted to steel stillages by Mark W. at time of export. Of course, I was not present nor involved for most of this time... it is just simply highly unlikely and not reasonably logical that this would have happened. Mark and I both took pains to protect and preserve this equipment including providing free inside storage for extended time periods. The flywheels on this one were definitely and obviously wobbled from having been run loose at some point in its life and anyone touching the machine would have clearly known this if they had any knowledge of Listers. That is my input - Brett is shooting absolutely straight! To my knowledge Brett is not bad mouthing the seller per se, but simply observing the condition and details for others to consider here. It is clearly a cautionary tale!

The Blackpool storage yard was just one of many mistakes made in this saga... it turned out to be quite costly and a point of aggravation for us because there was no loading or handling capability provided. By the time I was involved we could barely get any response from the responsible person/s there. Costly outside storage with no security or handling facility? - NOT the way to go! Bailing that equipment out of there at the asking price was almost too much for me to tolerate.  >:(

dieselgman
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 03:36:21 AM by dieselgman »
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listerdiesel

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2014, 09:35:04 AM »
So, if the CE twin that I sold to Mike Liserby didn't get shipped, where is it now?

What was the reason for it not making the container?

Peter

dieselgman

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Re: British Container Shipment
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2014, 11:24:17 AM »
Peter,

The short answer - In my view - basically zero participation, communications, or responses from the owner. We published our intentions loud and clear here as well as attempting numerous and numerous times to get to Mike through various of his friends. No viable response.

In taking over this operation it was my own perspective that we needed all active participants who would be responsive to the financial challenges and hurdles that would have to be handled. I cannot in retrospect say that I have accomplished that goal, but it is clear that Lisenby washed his hands of the mess way before I accepted the responsibility. I consulted those others involved who seemed to have knowledge of the situation... but I received almost zero information regarding the finances and past involvements. It almost seemed like that deck was stacked against us on purpose! I was left with no recourse except to settle up with everyone who made a claim and to act in the best interests of the remaining owners in the project! I am sure there are other perspectives in this matter and hopefully we have not stepped on too many toes in the process. Please accept my apologies for any slights that have occurred. In my view, my part in this project was all about getting the pieces picked up with as few added problems as possible. I know that there were surely a lot of failed arrangements and promises broken along the way - none of which were my own doing.

Mark W. has that engine in his custody. If I remember correctly, it was partly his call that made the final decision for us to pass on making further investment in that unit. Please ask him the question... perhaps he can shed some light regarding Mike's involvements and why the CE remains in Britain. I have done the best I could with the information and resources I had available.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:39:56 AM by dieselgman »
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