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Author Topic: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline  (Read 23549 times)

Listerational

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Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« on: March 17, 2014, 04:06:57 PM »
Hello,

Can someone please recommend to me where I can install a temperature gauge on my 10/1?

Thanks,

Jim

ronmar

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 11:35:55 PM »
Put a "T" into the coolant line comming out of the head and screw the temp probe into the unused port on the "T"...  I have seen a few who have drilled and tapped a hole in the side of the head between the intake valve and the Cutoff Valve Port(above the fuel filter).  With the head off, you can look up into the coolant passages to find a suitable location. 
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 04:35:21 PM »
Put a "T" into the coolant line comming out of the head and screw the temp probe into the unused port on the "T"...  I have seen a few who have drilled and tapped a hole in the side of the head between the intake valve and the Cutoff Valve Port(above the fuel filter).  With the head off, you can look up into the coolant passages to find a suitable location. 

Good idea ronmar. Maybe I can get her running properly before the next recession. What temperature should I be looking for sir? I do not have a circulator pump but I do have a large radiator with antifreeze.

 I wonder what size reservoir I need for a 10/1? My fluid overheating problem might just mean inadequate reservoir size.

Thanks,
Jim

ronmar

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 01:19:09 AM »
Well if you have a thermostat in the head outlet, and you should, you should be seeing around the thermostat's temperature.  I think these engine operate best when run close to 200F coolant temperature leaving the head.

As to expansion, I have a simple generic 1 quart expansion tank from Napa.  Between 30F and 200F I see maybe 3/4" of level change in the expansion tank...  I am however running a very small heat exchanger with probably the smallest coolant volume of any listeroid in service.  At least it is the smallest volume I have ever heard of.  It is just under 2 gallons total including the fluid in the expansion tank. So your total system volume and temperature will have an effect on the ammount of expansion you experience...
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

richardhula

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 12:11:43 PM »
I have found these easy to use and good for sourcing cooling problems. Accurate too - mine gives the same water rail reading as the fixed thermometer.



Couldn't find a US source but I'm sure they make their way from Hong Kong just the same.

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 12:21:02 PM »
Well if you have a thermostat in the head outlet, and you should, you should be seeing around the thermostat's temperature.  I think these engine operate best when run close to 200F coolant temperature leaving the head.

As to expansion, I have a simple generic 1 quart expansion tank from Napa.  Between 30F and 200F I see maybe 3/4" of level change in the expansion tank...  I am however running a very small heat exchanger with probably the smallest coolant volume of any listeroid in service.  At least it is the smallest volume I have ever heard of.  It is just under 2 gallons total including the fluid in the expansion tank. So your total system volume and temperature will have an effect on the ammount of expansion you experience...

I was reading my Utter Power CD and I think he did say around 200F. I also saw how he recommended the hoses leaving the engine travel up to the tanks and or radiator and not looped downward like mine does.
Your heat exchanger probably removes alot of the heat therefore requiring only a small amount of fluid I presume? I am thinking of adding a large reservoir tank above my already large radiator.

Thank you for the help.

Jim

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 12:21:40 PM »
I have found these easy to use and good for sourcing cooling problems. Accurate too - mine gives the same water rail reading as the fixed thermometer.



Couldn't find a US source but I'm sure they make their way from Hong Kong just the same.

Good idea, thanks.

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 12:56:31 PM »
I have found these easy to use and good for sourcing cooling problems. Accurate too - mine gives the same water rail reading as the fixed thermometer.



Couldn't find a US source but I'm sure they make their way from Hong Kong just the same.

I am surprised to hear that the outside surface temperature is not lower than the inside temperature. I have a woodstove and the surface thermometer reads about 50% of the interior of the stove temperature. Of course there is at least 1" of soapstone between the interior and the exterior.

overbore

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 05:06:48 PM »
Hello,

Can someone please recommend to me where I can install a temperature gauge on my 10/1?

Thanks,

Jim

Since I also have a 10/1 and faced that same problem, Jim, here is my solution which follows the good advice you can find here on our forum. First, I had to open the the head casting a small bit to allow the use of 190F NAPA thermostat that now features a small hole ( mine is 3/32) for bypass cooling to keep the hot side temperature constant rather than allowing the thermostat to continually cycle.
Next, I use a short nipple then a T with the up side holding a bushing then a McMaster- Carr gauge. My system feeds via SS flex hose ( unnecessary and $$$) up to a heat exchanger then the outlet side of EX features a T from the NAPA plastic header tank then down to the inlet side T with another gage then into the engine.
My SS heat ex is from E-buy and is mounted to a wall. The raw water cooling loop that feeds to the EX  has both a rain water filled tank with drain for freezing wx, radiator with fan and a  pump-all are for Hot Lanta in the summer and are, admittedly over engineered.
If you need more advice or part numbers let me know-glad to help,
Cordially, overbore

38ac

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 06:38:50 PM »



Couldn't find a US source but I'm sure they make their way from Hong Kong just the same.


Harbor Freight, around $20 when on sale
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richardhula

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 08:50:50 PM »
I have found these easy to use and good for sourcing cooling problems. Accurate too - mine gives the same water rail reading as the fixed thermometer.



Couldn't find a US source but I'm sure they make their way from Hong Kong just the same.

I am surprised to hear that the outside surface temperature is not lower than the inside temperature. I have a woodstove and the surface thermometer reads about 50% of the interior of the stove temperature. Of course there is at least 1" of soapstone between the interior and the exterior.

My thermometer bulb isn't in direct contact with the coolant but sits inside a hollow brass union screwed into a water rail tapping, allowing the outer to be in direct contact with it as shown here.




ronmar

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 12:31:44 AM »
Well if you have a thermostat in the head outlet, and you should, you should be seeing around the thermostat's temperature.  I think these engine operate best when run close to 200F coolant temperature leaving the head.

As to expansion, I have a simple generic 1 quart expansion tank from Napa.  Between 30F and 200F I see maybe 3/4" of level change in the expansion tank...  I am however running a very small heat exchanger with probably the smallest coolant volume of any listeroid in service.  At least it is the smallest volume I have ever heard of.  It is just under 2 gallons total including the fluid in the expansion tank. So your total system volume and temperature will have an effect on the ammount of expansion you experience...

I was reading my Utter Power CD and I think he did say around 200F. I also saw how he recommended the hoses leaving the engine travel up to the tanks and or radiator and not looped downward like mine does.
Your heat exchanger probably removes alot of the heat therefore requiring only a small amount of fluid I presume? I am thinking of adding a large reservoir tank above my already large radiator.

Thank you for the help.

Jim

I actually had to remote the heat exchanger higher to add more coolant volume so it would thermosiphon properly.  The top of the heat exchanger is currently about 30" above the head and about 12" out in front of the engine.  Here is a scale drawing.  In the drawing(click on the thumb for a larger image), the heatex is the vertical rectangle up by the green box that represents the expansion tank.  In order for thermosiphon to work properly the hot outlet line from the head really must run nearly as vertical as possible to the top of the radiator. Dips or long horizontal runs can kill the flow.  That line must also remain completely full of fluid so having the expansion tank above the radiator top tank is highly reccomended.

PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2014, 01:00:15 AM »
Hello ronmar,
Nice drawing indeed. I see the heat exchanger, the 1 quart expansion tank. May I ask what are the other items in your cooling system? Is the large red, orange and blue item a radiator or a coolant tank? Are the two items down low a circulator pump and a radiator?
Thank you for all of the help.
Jim

overbore

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2014, 03:31:02 AM »
Jim, Speaking for the expert who designed the above system which I copied, yes. The large tank on the right is the raw water side of the heat exchanger system with a radiator and pump for the water. Thermosyphon is used on the 50--50 antifreeze coolant running on the "Hot" side of the system. No down loops on that side!

If you use the radiator, make certain you remove the pressure feature from the radiator cap.  My pump is  a
Grunfos UP15-42F, #59896155, 1/25hp heavy duty pump with plumbing bypass.
The Napa P/N for the expansion tank is 730-4514.  Radiator and fan also have a plumbing bypass,

Cordially, overbore

Listerational

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Re: Thermostat in a 10/1 Listeroid Powerline
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 03:51:10 PM »
Jim, Speaking for the expert who designed the above system which I copied, yes. The large tank on the right is the raw water side of the heat exchanger system with a radiator and pump for the water. Thermosyphon is used on the 50--50 antifreeze coolant running on the "Hot" side of the system. No down loops on that side!

If you use the radiator, make certain you remove the pressure feature from the radiator cap.  My pump is  a
Grunfos UP15-42F, #59896155, 1/25hp heavy duty pump with plumbing bypass.
The Napa P/N for the expansion tank is 730-4514.  Radiator and fan also have a plumbing bypass,

Cordially, overbore


Hello,

I have a big radiator for my generator. Could you please take a look at the pictures through the link below and make some recommendations? You and ronmar have been a huge help. I am ready to make the correct adjustments but lack the knowledge.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/Aristotle-Rand/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>

Thanks a lot,

Jim