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Author Topic: Gelled lube oil ???  (Read 11038 times)

dieselgman

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Gelled lube oil ???
« on: January 10, 2014, 01:59:57 AM »
We just got in a Lister (natural gas fueled) oilfield engine. Everything looked pretty clean inside and out, except all of the lube oil is in a very thick and sticky glob that refuses to flow or move more than a slight wiggle. We had to remove it from the crankcase by the handful and had to pull a bit to get it out. Now it gets worse! This stuff will not burn, does not dissolve with sodium hydroxide, lacquer thinner, acetone, seems to thin slightly with gasoline but really does not want to dissolve. I have applied heat with no change. I have not seen this exact thing happen before and cannot really explain what this weird stuff is. Any ideas?

dieselgman
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 02:06:55 AM by dieselgman »
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Thob

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 02:37:05 AM »
Just a wild guess here - was it run on gas from the wellhead?  That gas might have carried some goo in that went past the rings and reacted with the motor oil, turning it to jelly.  I think polymerization is the term.

Any chance it overheated?  Does it have automatic shutdowns (oil pressure, water temp), and do they still work?  Or were they bypassed?

What about maintenance?  Did it get regular oil changes?  Or did somebody try to get a zillion hours out of some synthetic motor oil blended with mystery oil and STP?

When I was young, my dad was showing me an engine that my older brother had destroyed by throwing a rod.  He had taken the oil pan off and was scraping out the jellied motor oil with a putty knife - it wouldn't pour out at all.  "You know, son, you can't just add a little STP and keep driving.  Sooner or later you got to change the oil."  I learned a lot from my older brother...
 
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LowGear

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 03:54:51 AM »
Hey Thob,

I learned a lot from my older brother as well.  And notify Ripley, I learned from his mistakes.

I'm pretty impressed with biodiesel as a solvent.  My Witte reads "Do not run with crude." but it doesn't say not to lubricate with it in those exact words. 

So to continue talk-story:  When I got the family car, with three months of his operation, it had five cracked pistons and popped out of 3rd.  "You know it's not really hot until the temperature gauge goes all the way to the H, falls back to C and then crawls back up to the H.  WHAT'S YOUR FU#%ING PROBLEM ANYWAY?"

Same universe?

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dieselgman

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 05:18:02 AM »
As near as I can tell, these were well maintained units (owned by VARCO - National Oilwell)... no indications of sour fuel gas nor anything else out of the ordinary. This engine was not overheated nor run low on oil-pressure (temp and pressure Murphy controls are intact)- even looks pretty clean internally. I am puzzled about why this stuff refuses to thin or dissolve despite application of some pretty strong solvents... if it is indeed polymerization then what is the trigger and why is this not a common occurrence? I've worked engines nearly 50 years and seen some pretty extreme stuff, but never anything resembling this. :-[

dieselgman
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 05:22:06 AM by dieselgman »
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38ac

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 12:51:03 PM »
Liquid cooled?  I have seen some weird goo in crank cases when coolant has seeped in them?  What was that garbage the government dreamed up to ruin engines in the buy back program?
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Combustor

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 01:49:30 PM »
          Have seen a sample of exactly this jelly goo that came out of a Lister ST3. A caretaker had been left in charge of a property and apparently topped up the engine with some other type of oil that was not the type in use at the time. Poor old engine suffered rather badly, but it was not possible to accurately determine what oil was the cause of the problem. So beware, there is a secret combination of oils lurking out there waiting to cause you grief. Best advice is to top up with the type of oil that was used in the original fill. Combustor.
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dieselgman

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 03:46:34 PM »
The engine in question is air-cooled so we can eliminate coolant contamination. It must be either a combustion by-product or something to do with the lube oil mixture as far as I can tell.

dieselgman
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buickanddeere

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 04:05:36 PM »
I would pay to send a sample to the oil analiser lab just to know what the goo was.

mobile_bob

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2014, 12:13:36 AM »
i have seen this a couple of times over the years, both times we attributed it to
contamination of the lube oil with antifreeze.

now your engine being aircooled rules that out, so my best bet would be someone mixing oils
or simply adding makeup oil with whatever he had laying around...

one would think that if it were some other oil, it would dissolve with some sort of solvent/thinner/diesel or something like that, and one would also think that it would be flammable too.

the stuff doesn't want to burn leads me to think maybe there was some used oil dumped in the engine as makeup oil... that used oil likely was contaminated with antifreeze.

that is the only thing i can think of, i just cannot imagine what else it could be.

hmmm very interesting

how much would it cost to have an oil analysis done?

sure would be interesting to know what the reason behind this is.

bob g
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dieselgman

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 02:26:29 AM »
The gell in the crankcase does not appear very dirty, a very uniform dark brown... gelled uniform throughout the system including every oil passage and line big and small - completely through every bearing and moving part. This was a very clean low-hour engine prior to this problem. We do not see any bearing damage so the gel formation must have happened after its' last shutdown. This is sure proving a difficult mess to clean up, our normal (sodium hydroxide) hot-tank solution does not touch the stuff. I guess we will have to manually poke it and blow it out of every line and part. It seems to have a great affinity for cloth, so at least we can get it to stick to the rags in preference to the metal parts. It is such a weird thing to mess with... like a neutron bomb in the engine, no damages - but no possibility of life left whatsoever.

Very puzzling... where are our chemistry experts? How do you turn 4 gallons of clean lube oil into the blob from hell?  :o

dieselgman
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Thob

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 03:34:48 AM »
I've had a few oil analyses done by these guys:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com

A standard analysis costs $25.

You should call them first and tell them what you've got, they might have a better idea of what it is.  Plus they can tell you up front whether or not they could even do an analysis on the goop.
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I am sometimes afraid I'm not going to get it back together.

veggie

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2014, 04:30:28 AM »
May be Asphalines which come up the well bore with the gas.
Our gas compressors get the inlet gummed up with that stuff from time to time.
Try "Gun Wash" to clean it. I think that is xylene yes ?

veggie
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M61hops

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 04:51:53 AM »
Back in my dirt bike days it was the rule not to mix petroleum 2 stroke oils with the synthetic ones or you would get jelly clogging up the fuel system.  I've found small amounts of jelly inside 2 stroke motors even though I flushed the fuel system well when changing types of oil.  Perhaps someone combined types of oil when topping up the crankcase?  I haven't heard about this being a problem with sump oils in 4 stroke motors.  But maybe?  I've been adding a small amount of 2 stroke oil into the fuel tank of my 240D Benz to lube the injection pump and I make sure to use petroleum base type just to be safe.  Good luck!                    Leland
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dieselgman

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2014, 05:48:17 AM »
Thanks guys!

I will do some test cleaning with xylene if I can find any around here...

Veggie, do you know anything more about Asphalines in well-head gas? What lube oils are compatible (if any) under these conditions?

dieselgman
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veggie

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Re: Gelled lube oil ???
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 02:47:33 PM »
dieselgman,

The rotary screw compressors a I refer to (not engines) are using the newer Pure Silicone lubricants.
VERY expensive and typically outlasts conventional oils by a factor of 5.
I have not heard of a version of this oil for engines, however I would not be surprised if it's made for critical service or Natural Gas service.
Perhaps check with Boss Lubricants or your local industrial Lube dealer.

veggie
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- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw
- Changfa S195 (Waiting for a project)