Barrel cooling system?

[fuelfarmer]

The old barrel and thermo siphon cooling set up just seem like a simple and easy to install system. Are any of you using this system? And if so, do you have a thermostat in the loop? I plan to use the engine to run a generator for emergency power and just for fun sometimes. I plan to mount the engine to a heavy skid that could be moved with a tractor, so a barrel could be a little bulky. Also how many gallons of water would it take to get the job done for an 8/1?     

[ronmar]

I don't run one.  The cooling drum's biggest advantage is it's low tech, and it's typical availability in places where higher tech is not readilly available.  IT has many disadvantages however, not the least of which is size and weight.  at 8# per gallon, a 55 gallon drum weighs in excess of 440# when full of water.  Tank cooling relies primarilly upon evaporation to provide cooling.  It sheds 10 times more heat thru evap from the surface of the barrel than it does thru the skin, so it will always loose water, and the top must remain open which will allow debris to enter the tank.  55 gallons is a lot of water to treat with anti-freeze or corrosion inhibitors.  It is also a lot of water to get up to op temp.  For that reason, I would not run a drum cooling system without a thermostat.  These big diesels are significantly more efficient when head temps approach 200F.

I run a small heatexchanger(thermosiphon) and a 195F thermostat.  IF I didn't use the heatex, I would run a small radiator say out of a Geo Metro or a utility vehicle.  Oriented with the radiator core tubes vertical, this will thermosiphon just fine.  Inexpensive computer cooling fans can provide plenty of airflow, or the radiator can be sourced with a fan.  What does this do for you?  Well no huge volume to chemically treat for corrosion or to prevent freezing.  No large barrel or weight to deal with if moving the system.  The system also remains sealed so no contamination.  Most of us have junkyard radiators and fans available, so drum cooling makes very little sense IMO.

As always my .02   

[BruceM]

+1 for Ronmar's suggestion.  The smallest radiator will more than do the job, you could also get by with a good sized heater core.  You don't need much airflow, and 3  little muffin fans would do a great job and have built in redundancy.

 I use thermosiphon only flow through a radiator, and I use the exhaust and tin duct work to induce a draft through my grossly oversized radiator; all but about 5x12" is covered, and is more than adequate for full load in summer.

A cooling tank doesn't make sense if you've got to freeze proof it. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce M

[Thob]

+3 on using a radiator.  One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that most people don't run it pressurized.  If you remove the center of the radiator pressure cap, the outer part of the cap will still seal the radiator but allow flow to/from the overflow port on the side of the neck.  Put a hose from there into a can, plastic bottle, or whatever for an expansion tank.  This will keep the radiator top tank full of liquid, which is needed for thermosiphon.  While you're at the junkyard getting the radiator, get the fan and overflow bottle; or you can buy a generic bottle from an auto parts place for not much money. 

Did you ever get your serpentine pulley machined?

[BruceM]

If using a radiator turned sideways to improve flow as Thob describes nicely, it helps to add an air bleed tube to the highest point on the radiator (formerly the side).  I ran that small tube up and into the top of the expansion/fill tank.  It can otherwise be difficult to get the air out of the new top of the radiator.

[Hugh Conway]

 I'll be the odd man out here.....
I AM using a tank type cooling system on my Listeroid 6/1. Simplicity, durability, and that's what was available (remote area).
Tank is not a drum, but an old 30 gallon boiler tank. The top is not open, but it is vented to atmosphere. 195 degree thermostat at the engine .  I have not had to add any water in about 300 hours of run-time.
 
I use a mixture of water and automotive anti-freeze, and IMHO that is the biggest drawback of the system.....cost of the anti-freeze.
A normal battery charging run (daily in winter)of 2 hours heats up the top half of the tank, a 4 hour run in summer will heat the whole tank, but still not too hot. A hand on the bottom of the tank won't be burned. We are in a North Pacific climate, so summer outside temperatures are rarely very hot. Since we're in a remote location, extreme simplicity is key for us.

No fans, no electrics, no small tubes, tank is not susceptible to vibration damage. Dead simple, and works well for me.
Probably will use same cooling system on my real Lister, though will use a nice 20 gallon brass boiler tank that I have on hand.....unless an old cast iron radiator can be found.




Cheers,
Hugh

[fuelfarmer]

Thanks for the all the thoughts.

No I have not machined or purchased a pulley.

 I just remembered I have a repaired radiator that came out of a skid loader. That is what I should use if I want to make a somewhat portable unit.

Now another question. Are you making or buying the thermostat housings? A friend showed me one that I could copy, but it looks very heavy to be hanging on the shaking flange.
Is it possible to machine out the stock flange and slap a thermostat in the recess? 

I just built a frame/skid to mount an engine, pump an oil tank to run a wood splitter. My 84 year old dad wanted electric start on the splitter. Now I just need to super size the frame and mount the roid.

[Tom]

A tank is being used on my system, but mostly as a reservoir for the hydronic floor heater. I like a tank because there as a lot of water that needs to be boiled away if something goes wrong. The tank was easy to do as it's just a 40 gal electric water heater with the top cutoff. The feed troughs for the coolant are the existing bungs for the electric elements.

[ronmar]

The coolant output flange on my 6/1 was plenty large enough to machine it to accept a thermostat.  I also had to grind a little bit on the pipe fitting that I screwed into the flange so it would accomidate the thermostat.

[mike90045]

I spent several days grinding my coolant outlet and flange, to get a thermostat into it. Then a mounting bolt in the frame (not the engine) broke, and I'm trying to upsize the bolts in the frame, so I've only got a couple hours on the thermostat.

[buickanddeere]

  If the application was something like running a running a milking machine for an hour each morning and evening then sure but.................. If no stat is used the engine will suffer increased wear and lower fuel efficiency.
  The Amish that previously owned my Petteroid used an open barrel and topped it up with well water once and a while. Never occurred to him that an occasional flush would  reduced the mineral concentration in the coolant. It took days of cautious chipping after soaking the head in muriatic acid. To remove all the lime and calcium that had the coolant passages cemented tight. 

[listeroil]

This works very well




Mick

[mike90045]

This works very well




Mick

Tease.  So where do I get one ?

[fuelfarmer]

Great Idea. This is why I like forums so much.

[ronmar]

Here is another way to do it, but requires a thermostat who's flange will fit inside the rubber hose.  The drawing describes it better than I can.  one hose clamp fits hose(black) to pipe(red).  The other hose clamp compresses the hose slightly holding the thermostat flange in place.