A couple CS's for sale in UT

[Thob]

First - check the ratings plate on your loads.  Most computers and other small electronic gadgets are made for the international market, and can run on 50 Hz just fine.  The brick on my laptop, for example, is rated at 100-240V, 50-60HZ.  The biggest problem will be with things that have a motor in them (but not all).  My washing machine, for example, has an internal VFD that runs the motor at variable speed, so it doesn't care what the line frequency is (I'd still have to check the name plate before attempting to run it on 50Hz).

Second - It "should" be possible to use a larger pulley on the generator and speed it up to 1800 RPM.  This will require less excitation, so you'll have to check into the regulation circuitry and understand how it works to properly set it.  It may have adjustable resistors, but you may have to add additional resistance to bring the voltage down.  It might also be adaptable to a modern electronic AVR.

Third - hasn't anyone on here already tried this?  That would be much better than my guesswork...

[buickanddeere]

Hi, What kind and size of a step up transformer can i use to get from 50 Hz to 60Hz on my lister 6-1 startomatic here in north america for computers and small appliances so i won,t do any damage. The computer i use will shut down on 50Hz on the startomatic but on the grid at 60Hz it will work fine. thanks.

A transformer does not change frequency.

[M61hops]

I've never seen the generator pulley in person to see if there is enough metal to cut the belt grooves deeper to speed up the generator but in photos it looks like that would work?  You would have to add field resistance to keep the voltage down and you could get a transformer for 120V applications.  A Start-O-Matic would be way cool to have  !                              Leland

[Lister Rob]

Hi, thanks for the info but how will you hook up a avr to change 50 to 60 hrts on the 6-1 start-o-matic. thanks.

[bschwartz]

Rob, the AVR wouldn't change the 50hz to 60hz.  Instead the idea would be to speed up the generator to produce 60hz, but the output voltage would be too high.  The AVR would be added to lower (if I get this right) the field current to drop the output voltage back down to the desired level.

[Lister Rob]

ok understanding but how will you hook up the avr. maybe in the out put leaving the generator and would you use an electronic model or an old fashion manual operating model as in a car. and what model is best to use and best way to set up. thanks.

[listeroil]

The Lister startomatic alternator can be run at 1800 rpm to create 60hz no problem at all. The alternator pulley can be machined down to increase alternator revs. There is no need to fit an AVR, the SOM alternators are fitted with a big fat resistor with an adjustment slider fitted to it which controls the field winding voltage.
If you increase the revs to achieve 60hz you can adjust the voltage down to 230 with the adjuster. For 110 @ 60hz a step down transformer should work okay.
 
I am not sure about this but it might just be possible to adjust the field winding voltage down low enough for it to produce 110 volts.

Heres a picture of the resistor in question.







Mick

[Hugh Conway]

Mick:
Your great photos and information deserve a thread of its own. would you consider starting a new one on converting a 50Hz Start-O to 60Hz?

Nice photos of the resistor. In the second photo, looks as if  the adjustable ring has been moved to the left on the resistor coil. Have you actually tried this method of increasing Hz?

I just bought a 50Hz Start-O and am interested in trying to produce 60Hz. Now if there was a way to make split phase 240..........

cheers,
Hugh

[listeroil]

Hugh

I live in the UK and have only set mine to run at 50hz however the alternator was designed to run at 1800rpm for the USA market.  

In the picture of the top box the bottom resistor is the one for adjusting the volts (shunt field resistance) the top one is the battery charging resistance.

I've been checking out some of my Lister books and it looks like the resistance of the field windings is different for the 230 v and 110v versions. So rather than trying to adjust the voltage down to 110v with the resistor. I think the step down transformer would be the way to go. I don't really understand split phase 240 but 2 step down transformers could create 2 single phase 110v supplies. I think that way you wouldn't have to balance the phases.

Here is a page from one of my Lister manuals detailing the changes needed to a standard engine to turn it into a generator engine. it shows that the generator pulley from the 6/1 650rpm engine at 50hz is used on the 8/1 850rpm  generator to produce 60hz.





Mick

[dieselgman]

I believe that what is referred to as 'split-phase' is actually fed from a single phase source and through a single center-tapped transformer to yield the two 120v legs. This is actually a pretty simple way to make the conversion.

dieselgman

[listeroil]

Dieselgman
Would you not have to balance the phases? Would it be okay to draw say 2kw from 1 phase and none from the second using the centre tap transformer?
Mick

[dieselgman]

I would have to study how the particular SOM in question is wired... but my understanding is that it is dedicated single-phase and therefore completely balanced already. There are variations on the SOM sets as well, so we would need to get really specific to provide correct details. It is easy enough to unbalance and overload/overheat a 3-phase head if only using one of its windings.

On the center-tap transformer there will be some efficiency and heating losses, but balance should not be of concern as long as the transformer is of sufficient capacity for the applied load.

dieselgman

[Listerfever]

Hey guys
This is my first post ever on any forum. Anyway, we need to get this figured out. I have watched as different theories are thrown out, but nothing seems concrete. I purchased an 8/1 SOM from this seller several months ago. Up until now my intentions have been to buy appliances from a web site that deals in 50hz items or use it to charge batteries in an off grid solar system. My solar power panel just arrived and I'm not thrilled about the fact that it is filled with gadgets that I don't understand. I would much rather have a 60hz old school SOM. So lets keep this thread going till we solve this.
Does anyone have thoughts on how speeding up the alternator would affect the 12v output ?

[ses]

A bit off the current topic...but the VA and 2 6hp CS SOM's will be available for another week. All other units are now unavailable.

Thanks to you all on the feedback re: the electric conversion.

SES