Author Topic: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?  (Read 5395 times)

GuyFawkes

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anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« on: June 23, 2006, 12:27:10 AM »
From today's times

A war against Iran 'could drive oil price above $200 a barrel'
By Joe Bolger
THE price of oil could surge above $200 a barrel if the West’s dispute with Iran escalates into full-scale war, a senior Saudi Arabian diplomat said yesterday.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States, gave warning that military conflict could send oil prices spiralling, amid fears that the country could halt exports if the stand-off with the West continued.

“You could see (oil prices) perhaps double or triple as a result of the conflict”, Prince Turki said, speaking to the United States Energy Association.

Iran is Opec’s second-largest oil producer, raising fears in recent months that any military action could prompt the country to cut off oil exports and seriously threaten supplies to the West.

“The idea of somebody firing a missile at an installation somewhere will shoot up the price of oil astronomically," Prince Turki said.

The threat of conflict in Iran has underpinned oil prices in recent months, with prices in New York and London fluctuating about the $70 mark. The price edged closer to $70 in London yesterday amid continuing fears over supplies and news of a lower than expected rise in US petrol supplies. US light crude for August was up 96 cents at $70.30 in intraday trading. London Brent crude closed up 82 cents at $68.90.

However, despite fears that a war could act as a stimulus for further gains, Sam Bodman, the US Energy Secretary, says that America could withstand any weakening of supply from Iran, meeting the shortfall with its own stockpiles of oil.

Prince Turki gave warning that the implications of military action went further than supplies from Iran itself. He said that conflict involving Iran could have an impact on the Strait of Hormuz, a channel between Iran and the United Arab Emirates through which producers transport 17 million barrels of oil a day to the West.
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Tom

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 01:45:50 AM »
Yea, I remember how devastated I was when I found out the V8s were going to be history by '84. I was delivering papers at the time and used to ride my bike down the line of cars waiting for gas and sell papers.
Tom
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Doug

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 02:50:58 AM »
It didn't play out that way here. The national energy program came into being shortly after the first oil shock and capped prices. This realy pissed off people in the oil patch, but other good programs also came along like the "get off of oil" home heating program. All kinds of things can be done if there is a desire to make real cuts in energy usage. A look across the pond at the way pertro products are taxed can sure lead people to buy more energy efficient products. The of course there is my old friend Frank's telling words.

In the 70's I owned a gas station and drove a big car, what did I care?
In the 40's I drove a truck that burned wood chunks, I still remember how to cut wood....

High oil prices simply force people to live within there means and deal with the fact oil isn't something that have the right to piss away.

Doug

rgroves

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 03:03:15 AM »
Makes me wish Shell was 5 years further along in developing Rocky Mt. tar sands.
Just imagine  - a US petro reserve larger than all the other global reserves combined.

Of course, we wouldn't want to drill into THAT and endanger the plate tectonic thingies, now would we?

rg
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

mobile_bob

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 06:22:44 AM »
yes i remember the late 60's and early 70's
i pumped 92 octane regular for 24.9 a gallon
and ethyl  99 octane for 26.9 a gallon!

that was the everyday price, farm gas was about a nickle less, and diesel was 24.9 farm was 19.9

of course there was the gas wars,,, lowest i recall was 17.9 regular for cars, i rmember dinner plates, steak knives etc as premiums
for buying our gas... wow.

oh ya, and oil checked air checked and corrected in all 4 tires and the spare, windshield washed front and back window.

oh ya,,, 5 bucks would fill a caddy with change back!

yup those were the days :)

bob g
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rgroves

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 08:58:41 AM »
yes i remember the late 60's and early 70's
i pumped 92 octane regular for 24.9 a gallon
and ethyl  99 octane for 26.9 a gallon!

that was the everyday price, farm gas was about a nickle less, and diesel was 24.9 farm was 19.9

of course there was the gas wars,,, lowest i recall was 17.9 regular for cars, i rmember dinner plates, steak knives etc as premiums
for buying our gas... wow.

oh ya, and oil checked air checked and corrected in all 4 tires and the spare, windshield washed front and back window.

oh ya,,, 5 bucks would fill a caddy with change back!

yup those were the days :)

bob g

Stop, you're making me feel old.

I remember something else about those days. 

EVERYBODY SPOKE ENGLISH!   (Cept the old folks who slipped in some German when they thought nobody was listening)

rg
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

Doug

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 06:54:09 PM »
Tar sands aren't a solution....

You need to heat a lot of water nearly to barrels of boiling water in fact for every barrel of oil you produce.
Then you need to upgrade this thick heavy grude using a process like hydrogination, also energy intensive.
The you can refine it. 
This process wil never be cheap but get slightly more energy out for energy invested in the process.
Another concern is the amounts of water need. Here in Canada where we have a lot of fresh water but the amount needed to produce syncrude is begining to pit farmers in Alberta against oil companies. Not to mention this drives up the price of natural gas the main source of energy used to heat the process.

Doug

mobile_bob

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2006, 04:11:58 AM »
good point re: the energy required to process oil form oil sands

i read  a few years back that the oil sands in alberta required 80 barrel of oil energy to free 20 barrels of oil.
that is a tough nut to crack.
bob g
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(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

rgroves

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2006, 10:54:40 AM »
good point re: the energy required to process oil form oil sands

i read  a few years back that the oil sands in alberta required 80 barrel of oil energy to free 20 barrels of oil.
that is a tough nut to crack.
bob g

Yes, the alberta tar sands are energy intensive to extract, it's a brute force mining proposition.
However, there's a different process undergoing testing for oil shale in Colorado which could mean a positive energy balance and much less surface disruption.
It's called "in situ conversion" and Shell is leading the way. Check these websites 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg119944.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5058760.stm

And Shell just acquired massive leases in Canadian oil sands that haven't been practical to extract until now

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06032701.htm

For anybody who thinks petroleum is just evil, I suppose this won't seem like good news.
if you're a big fan of the Saudis, Venezualans, and those warm fuzzy Iranians, sorry.

For the rest of us, it's remarkably promising.
100 years of energy security on this side of the pond.

A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

Doug

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2006, 07:31:50 PM »
Personaly I'm a big fan of natural uranium oxide fuel ( or better yet MOX flue made form scrapped nuclear weapons ) in a heavy water reactor...

We're stuck with oil, but I think a lot of bio-mass is going to waste that could be used. And a lot of energy period is wasted because of poor planning on all our parts....

Doug

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2006, 05:21:31 AM »
I think the Canadian heavy water reactors that use 'normal' uranium are pretty safe and have developed a pretty good track record? They can also be refueled while on line?
Meanwhile, I just noticed that Congress is repealing the 25 mile ban on coastal oil drilling? Anwar is next. Methane Hydrates on the coastal sea floors are promising.
Mexican oil PEMEX has found 'deep oil' in the gulf of mexico....Combined with 'gas to diesel', shale oil, tar sands (enhanced), biodiesel, ethanol, new discoveries in algea based fuel, The Turkey guts -to -oil guy, Fischer Tropsch coal synthesis....Combine all of these and new ideas yet to come, there will be enough.
I refuse to buy into the KurtSaxon Survivalist notion that society must break down. It 'might' so I should be ready. But I don't believe it will.
Scott E
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Doug

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Re: anyone remember 1970/1/2/3?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2006, 07:26:33 PM »
I honestly don't know what to think any more Scott. Thought about byuilding a new home using straw bail a while back and maybe look fir a little simpler lifestyle. But who am I kidding I'm no hippy I need beer and pizza, cable TV and the Saturday drive to Daiy Queen with the boy....

I hope some of this technology gets used, that and I'd like to see urban rail. Tastefull quiet electric trolleys make a come back so I don't have to drive as much.

Doug