Author Topic: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850  (Read 26186 times)

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 12:25:31 PM »
That engine has features identical to the 1115 I purchased from Carroll Stream several years ago including the flywheel.  I cant hand crank the 1115 so its not hard to imagine that hand cranking that beast is a joke also.  When you tried the starter did you let it spin up on decompression? Mine will just barely start with a big battery and cables unless it is allowed to spin up. I dont even try to start it otherwise, seems like it would be very hard on the starter. Be sure to let us know how it runs, hint,, we (I) like videos!

Selling the wife ends the first hot or cold day or two or three without grid power. First long outage we had we not only ran our place like nothing we ran a cable to or neighbors and powered them up also, not fully but lights and well pump.   You will need to get rid of the hopper cooling and get a tank or radiator set up.


« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:29:26 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 02:47:59 PM »
Lets hope you did not fill they cylinder with diesel with all the priming of the injector.  That will make it bounce!   I suppose cranking a few revs decompressed and no fuel would blow a lot of excess out.

deeiche

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2013, 07:39:53 PM »
I have a 195 and the first time I tried to start it this spring I found I needed 3 hands, one to hold down the decompressor lever, the other 2 to crank over the engine.

Oh, yeah, the other thing to look for is make sure you have the rack open, not closed.  I know this from experience.   :-[

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2013, 12:44:56 AM »
your going to have to have decent size cables and a good battery, mounted correctly and up close
i doubt you will ever get it to roll over with anything but really heavy duty cables and they best not be too long.

that engine will make 10kwe at 1500rpm without breaking a sweat

and i agree, i have no idea what the hand crank option is included for?  one would have to be a pissed off gorilla to manage to start that engine even in hot climates.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2013, 10:16:59 AM »


 After reading these posts I am having an uh oh moment....The plan was for auto start on this project...I suppose I can rig up a solenoid to decompress to allow the starter to spin up automatically before the decompress closes...

 Guess I need to find some short heavy duty battery cables. The ones I have are 5ft long, probably too long and not heavy enough, certainly better than the cheapo jumper cables I used. The battery is a 1000CCA that i purchased for cranking the Listeroid, which turns over like there is no compression, no spin up required.


ronmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 03:25:54 PM »
Yep, jumper cables won't do it.  Not because the cables are not up to the task, but because you are trying to pull all that current thru the little sheetmetal teeth tips on the alligator clamps.  I bet you were arc welding at those points:).  You need a hard bolted terminal lug or terminal battery connection with large surface area to transfer any ammount of current.  When I spin mine I hold the compression release and spin it up to full RPM before I drop the compression release. This saves wear on the starter as the stored momentum of the flywheel helps it pull thru. 

A couple of failed starts could indeed have it nearly hydraulicilly locked with excess fuel in the cylinder and there may even be some remnants of shipping/storage lube oil in the cylinder.  Next time you try, leave the fuel off, and spin it a little bit with the compression release open to try andd clear the cylinder before you try and start it...

After you get it running and broke in, you will probably be able to hand start it, but not very easilly when cold...   Mine is pretty tough when cold, but not so bad when at a reasonable temperature...

Also wear hearing protection, that thing will sound like a barrel half full of hammers rolling down a hill when running:)     
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 10:46:14 PM »
my bet is 2/0 or 00 cables, with eyelets (as ronmar suggests) 6ft long or shorter
coupled with a good battery (your 1000cca battery qualifies) and you will find it will
roll over and start without messing with the compression release.

that release is really meant to be used with handcranking and unnecessary with the electric
starter provided you have enough battery and heavy enough cables.

and after it is broken in you can hand crank that beast, you are a much bigger man than i am.

that engine is basically every bit as big as the redstone, but has only one flywheel so hand cranking would be something one would only do in a life and death situation in my opinion

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2013, 10:01:22 AM »

 I will have an update this weekend using heavy cables, should be interesting.


mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 03:14:43 AM »
when you make the connections, and if it still won't roll over without the compression release
then put a volt meter at the starter and measure the voltage getting to the starter terminals while cranking

if it drops below about 10volts you either have a bad or poorly charged battery or the cables and/or connectors are too light.

next check at the battery while cranking, if the voltage stays up above 10volts while cranking the battery is good enough in my opinion.

a good battery, heavy enough cables and connectors and you won't need to worry about the compression release in my opinion.

don't be fooled into thinking that because the voltage is dropping that you need to use the compression release to take the strain off the starter, low voltage kills more starters than just about anything other than over cranking/overheating. so get enough power to the starter and it will do what it was designed to do.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 10:18:04 AM »


 Does anyone have suggestions for either a bolt on drive coupling or a source for a larger pulley for this beast ?

I have been searching for either a larger pulley, a serpentine or a direct coupling and have yet to find anything that would just bolt on. I would hate to have to go to a machine shop and get adapters made, but the stock v-belt pulley is small, less torque more slippage. I would like to be able to gear the RPM's down too via pulleys but will settle for a good direct connect coupling at 1800rpm just for reliability.


 

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2013, 09:32:00 AM »

This thread and not having the inclination to Muscle round the Roid to balance it, made me Dig out my little China Horizontal today.  As soon as I got it out I remembered the biggest drawback with the thing was that Damned Pulley.  I was thinking about trying to find some plate and get my brother in law to centre it up for me on his lathe so I can weld in a shaft and get him to put a 3/4 and 1" step in it.

I have some large faceplate like things off a lathe that I picked up from a scrap bin outside of a machine shop that are probably heavier then the original flywheel. I might talk to him about what these would need to bolt up to the flywheel and put the shaft on one of those.
Might be better to go somewhere and have them done, he's a fine machinist but I'd be lucky to get the things back by christmas....... next year.

I looked on some China engine sites and the only thing I found for those engines is the original flywheel and pulley. Not much good to you.
perhaps having a plate and shaft made to fit may be the easiest option for you?

While looking, I noted the starter motors on some slightly smaller machines.  They were .7 KW.
Seems that even if your starter is double that, it shouldn't pull massive amounts of Current.  The starter on my Merc was 3Kw and the one on my truck is only 2.7 and normal batteries and cables spin them up just fine.

Of course being a new engine everything is going to be tight so that may have an effect on the cranking effort.
My little engine hasn't got a great deal of hours on it but trying to turn it over today without the compression release was impossible no matter how slowly I tried to turn the flywheel and let the compression escape through the piston rings.
As I suspected might be the case, the injector pump was stuck, again, so I pulled that all apart, cleaned the gum out and got it firing again nicely. It was well and truly stuck this time and it proved hard to get apart especially the main plunger but all good now. Pressure pack $2 degreaser works great cleaning those pumps and gets everything moving again.

All part of the fun I suppose but I'll make sure to run the thing on engine or 2 stroke oil before I put it away again this time and drain the tank which is also gummed up.

Why do they put such useless fuel taps and tanks on Chinese engines?
 All my china engines fuel caps leak as do the taps where fitted.  I never fill the tanks as it gets shaken up and comes out to run all over the engine.
Pain in the Butt.

Same for me, I have hunted all over the Chinese sites, and it looks like either I need to have something made from scratch or have the existing pulley modified so I can put a coupling on it. I did a quick drawing / quote on emachineshop.com and it came out to $600 for a steel adapter, seems kind of pricey to me I will have to do a real drawing and check  some local shops.



OneBarfly

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2013, 12:44:54 PM »
I'm looking for a direct drive plate or stubshaft as well. I have previously contacted Randy Allmand, but he was not interested in doing a run unless it was a big order (10+ units). So, where do we find a decent priced unit?

deeiche

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2013, 02:24:01 PM »
I did a quick drawing / quote on emachineshop.com and it came out to $600 for a steel adapter, seems kind of pricey to me I will have to do a real drawing and check  some local shops.


Yeah, that is stupid for a plate and a shaft. The materials wouldn't be $20 so how many hours labour do they think it will take at what price? If they took an hour to do it they would be dragging the chain.

You'll definitely do better with some small local places.

Maybe because they don't have machinists who work directly on a piece of steel.  A lot of shops nowadays expect to let computers do the work, so the setup costs are the same, regardless of one-off or many piece project.

I use a local machinist, 82 year old Korean war vet, not a computer anywhere in his shop.  He made a new axle stub shaft for my Oliver baler, otherwise I was going to have to scrounge for a similar aged used part, for more than what I paid for the new machined part.  He stays busy working 2 1/2 days a week, working on little projects.

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2013, 09:27:38 AM »
 Good battery cables was the answer !
Installed a pair of 1ga battery cables and it fired up on the first compression stroke.

This thing is an absolute monster, very big and really kicks at start up, as it shut down, it was going to tear itself off the pallet, I had to hit the decompression as it was really hopping violently.

At a little higher rpm, probably around 1500 or so it smoothed out nicely.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R31ZxpoJZg&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

DirtMerchant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: is this a good deal? ZS1130 for $850
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2013, 10:44:19 AM »
 Found this on Alibaba today:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556718439/V_belt_Pulley_25cm_.html

10 inch v-belt pulley...this would certainly grab better and allow for lower rpm running...

But the description says material "asbestos & copper" thinking our customs would reject that.....

and this one:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556717222/Flat_Pulley_25cm_.html

Minimum order, 2000 units.....

Pulleys for this thing is really bothering me, if I use the stock pulley, I would have to go one to one with the gen head and even then due to the small diameter of the pulleys it would seem prone to slipping and put undue load on the bearings of both the engine and gen head. It would seem even if going 1:1 I would want larger pulleys for less slippage and reduced load on the bearings.

With the stock pulley, overdriving the gen head is out because I cannot put a significantly smaller pulley on it. This means that I am stuck at 1:1 at 1800rpm, I would prefer to bring down the rpms a little, but it seems impossible without having custom pulleys made. Seems like if I go the custom pulley route, I might as well just go direct coupling....


« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 12:01:35 PM by DirtMMerchant »