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Author Topic: Used Refrigeration Oil  (Read 722 times)

rdbates1

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Used Refrigeration Oil
« on: December 15, 2019, 09:35:11 PM »
I have an opportunity to get some used refrigeration oil for my Changfa.  It looks like the older stuff is mineral oil which should run fine but will the newer synthetics burn?

snowman18

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2019, 09:36:32 AM »
I just finished reading the MSDS for synthetic refrigeration oil, I suggest that you do the same, as there are health implications noted.

Flash points









« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 09:41:19 AM by snowman18 »

snowman18

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2019, 10:09:17 AM »
Used refrigerant oils often retain a certain amount of freon dissolved into the oil, when freon is exposed to heat of flame phosgene gas is created.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene

Phosgene can be released during building fires. In one instance, a deputy fire chief died ten days after inhaling fumes that wafted down outside a burning restaurant. After a two-day hospitalization he had appeared to recover, but ultimately suffered cardiac arrest at home following tracheobronchial inflammation, alveolar hemorrhage, and pulmonary edema. The phosgene was produced by decomposing Freon 22 after flames ducted up from a grease fire heated an air-conditioning unit on the roof and ruptured a hose

WWII nerve gas, be carefull what your using for engine fuel.

H2S, hydrogen sulfide another deadly gas that kills, mostly associated with oil well and gas wells but may also be found in sewer systems and septic tanks. Has a distinctive rotten egg odor.

H2S dissolves in water and oil and so will freon.

https://tinyurl.com/wcygb3b

« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 10:15:10 AM by snowman18 »

Willw

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2019, 11:24:05 AM »
snowman18: Thanks for the valuable info regarding phosgene gas.

I sometimes wonder whether I am unknowingly harming myself with chemicals.

I remember when I was a kid, me and my brother found some full cans of underarm deodorant, and nothing pleased us more than to spray the stuff into a burning flame.
Created a handheld torch of sorts, and of course we ended up breathing some of the burnt fumes in.
I still wonder what damage that innocent act did to our health, and how it ties in with my present health situation.
Daily driver '97 GMC W4 tipper on WVO/Kerosene mix.
6/1 clone standby generator.
Too many projects.

broncodriver99

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2019, 01:37:29 PM »
As a refrigeration tech I wouldn't recommend burning it. I have used the older mineral and alkylbenzene oils to start fires and they burn well but as noted they do tend to contain trace amounts of refrigerant which does indeed cause phosgene gas when burnt. The newer synthetics are polyolester oils and they produce quite a but of ash and powder when heated. We have problems with them creating powder and stopping up metering devices at temperatures below 250 F, I can only imagine how much ash they would create when burnt. I don't know weather the ash is abrasive or would cause a problem but it is still going to have the problem of residual refrigerant.

Depending on how long the oil has been sitting or how well the tech who removed the oil did recovering the refrigerant the concentration level may be low enough to not cause a problem but generally my experience has been that when performing oil changes or decommissioning equipment very little effort is made to boil the refrigerant out of the oil. As an aside I have been in the position may times of having to repair a leak when a hold back valve would not hold and had to braze with a small amount of refrigerant flowing and it created a green flame which was definitely not near as hot as the typical oxy/acetylene flame. I am not sure how burning refrigerant would effect the flame inside the cylinder. It is not a fun experience as burning lungs, watering eyes, and running nose tends to persist for at least a day after exposure to burning refrigerant.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 01:58:05 PM by broncodriver99 »

snowman18

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2019, 03:46:23 PM »
snowman18: Thanks for the valuable info regarding phosgene gas.

I sometimes wonder whether I am unknowingly harming myself with chemicals.

I remember when I was a kid, me and my brother found some full cans of underarm deodorant, and nothing pleased us more than to spray the stuff into a burning flame.
Created a handheld torch of sorts, and of course we ended up breathing some of the burnt fumes in.
I still wonder what damage that innocent act did to our health, and how it ties in with my present health situation.

Propellant used in your deodorant cans was probably butane or even propane not many people know that the stink we associate with propane and natural gas is added to the gas to alert of a leak.

When used as a propellant  in aerosols would have been used as sweet gas.

Your health hazard would have been the aluminum, yea we do stupid things and youngsters but I doubt to inhaled enough aluminum to cause you permanent harm.

When I was younger when making out with the wife I would sometimes place my armpit over her nose and my pheromones would drive her absolutely insane. Don't try this if your using deodorants.

If your wife / girlfriend wears your old shirts around the house and yard ya have yourself a keeper.

Aluminium-containing antiperspirants prevent toxins from being expelled by the body. These toxins clog up lymph nodes around the armpits and breasts and cause breast cancer. ... The aluminium in deodorants is absorbed by the skin. It affects the blood brain barrier and has been linked with the onset of Alzheimer's disease
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 03:49:16 PM by snowman18 »

snowman18

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Re: Used Refrigeration Oil
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 04:03:34 PM »
As a refrigeration tech I wouldn't recommend burning it. I have used the older mineral and alkylbenzene oils to start fires and they burn well but as noted they do tend to contain trace amounts of refrigerant which does indeed cause phosgene gas when burnt. The newer synthetics are polyolester oils and they produce quite a but of ash and powder when heated. We have problems with them creating powder and stopping up metering devices at temperatures below 250 F, I can only imagine how much ash they would create when burnt. I don't know weather the ash is abrasive or would cause a problem but it is still going to have the problem of residual refrigerant.

Depending on how long the oil has been sitting or how well the tech who removed the oil did recovering the refrigerant the concentration level may be low enough to not cause a problem but generally my experience has been that when performing oil changes or decommissioning equipment very little effort is made to boil the refrigerant out of the oil. As an aside I have been in the position may times of having to repair a leak when a hold back valve would not hold and had to braze with a small amount of refrigerant flowing and it created a green flame which was definitely not near as hot as the typical oxy/acetylene flame. I am not sure how burning refrigerant would effect the flame inside the cylinder. It is not a fun experience as burning lungs, watering eyes, and running nose tends to persist for at least a day after exposure to burning refrigerant.

Yes to all, as you said it just takes a minute trace of freon to experience those symptoms. I tossed my flame type leak detector for an electronic sniffer.

Haven't repaired anything for the past twenty years.