World’s Stupidest Lister Question!

[Andre Blanchard]

Funny, instinctively I “feared” these flywheels!  Something about many hundred pounds of cast iron spinning at 650 rpm, with 12 HP behind them makes me wonder why more people don’t die from these things! 

I have another question for wise men here.  There seems to be a balance problem with the flywheels.  Imagine that, an engineering imperfection in my Indian motor!  The flywheel on the right seems to be in better true than the one on the left (the one I crank).  The left flywheel seems to be slightly off true, and running slightly eccentric, as if the main rod is very slightly bent.  This is causing the motor to shake a whole lot more than I would think it should. 

I would estimate that the wheel oscillates between about 1/8” to 3/16” off center when spinning.  What has me more concerned is that I am planning on attaching my generator pulley to this flywheel.  If I attach my generator pulley to this fly wheel, will I have bad things happen to my generator bearings?  How about the belt?  Is this margin of erro normal?

If you are talking an 1/8" radial eccentricity that is a lot.  That much axial misalignment (the rim of the flywheel moving side to side) would not surprise me, it would be disappointing but not a real problem functionally.  Best way to check is with the engine off, roll it over by hand and use an indicator to measure the misalignment.  Or if you are without an indicator, clamp a pointer to something solid and adjust it so that it is really close to the wheel at its closest point but not touching.  Then roll the wheel around to see how big the gap gets.  With a 6" scale you should be able to measure it within about 0.005".
By eyeballing it while the engine is running a lot of what you are seeing could be the entire engine moving.

I have included a link to a large mpeg, but it is a big file (9MB) and I don’t even think it illustrates the “off true” of the fly wheel very well, since it is very slight -- it does not show up on the video very well.  Regardless, I have included it here in hopes that perhaps someone with a fast internet connection may take a glance at it and let me know if the engine seems to be within “spec” for a Listeroid.

Don't take it personal but when looking for a 1/8" movement that video suffers from the same thing my videos do.  I really need a tripod.

Click for Mpeg of my eccentric Listeroid

I am hoping that this wobble is normal for these engines and that everyone’s does this, and still works fine with the ST gen head.

I won’t even entertain trying to straighten the main shaft to a better tolerance than it is now.  There is no way I can do that type of work.  Has anyone tried to better balance the flywheels with weights? 

Talk about scary!  Lead weights attached to the flywheels…. this is a projectile waiting to happen.

Thanks!

Stevels

My words of wisdom.
When you get a brand new engine uncreated and it is still on the pallet when you are fondling the flywheels, rolling it over while watching the valve gear.  Remember that the gap between the flywheel and the pallet is only about 1/2 the thickness of your fingers.  Dam that smarts, felt like I twisted the meat right off the bone.

[fattywagonman]

Hi Stevels,
I watched the video and thought the engine ran really well.... To me the little wobble didn't look like anything to worry about... I'd just make sure the key stays tight... I had one walk out.... I caught it before it came all the way out but can you imagine if the flywheel would have made it off the shaft... OH Baby! 

[Andre Blanchard]

Hi Stevels,
I watched the video and thought the engine ran really well.... To me the little wobble didn't look like anything to worry about... I'd just make sure the key stays tight... I had one walk out.... I caught it before it came all the way out but can you imagine if the flywheel would have made it off the shaft... OH Baby! 

I just had that happen also.  I had done an R&R on the flywheel a few running hours before.  I had started the engine and when into the building for a few minutes to get something.  Was walking up to the engine when I spotted the key on the ground about 10 feet from the engine, not a good feeling.  Look up at the engine and the flywheel is still up against the engine so I go over flip the pump off and the decompress on and back up out of the area.  In a situation like that instinct is to maintain eye contact, and never turn your back on it, be it a tiger, bear, or a large spinning chunk of iron.

Going to get some 2" ID collars to but up against the key, they will not keep the key from getting lose but should keep it from coming out.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006061408521419&item=1-2768-200&catname=
Also thinking about removing the flywheels and filing the keyways at a taper matching the gib key so that there is contact along its entire length.

[Halfnuts]

Sevels,

The engine looks like it's running fine.  Can't quite see the problem from the video, but if the rim of the flywheel is moving slightly side to side, that shouldn't cause a problem.  If it isn't centered on the shaft, that's more serious, but can be fixed by adding some lead weight opposite the eccentricity.  I notice your gib keys aren't sticking into the flywheel hub very far.  That's how mine were before I did some tweaking (see below).  If you ever pull the gib keys, it would be a good idea to take a file to the tapered side and get them to stick into the hub a little farther before you reinstall them. Gives more surface are in contact with the flywheel and should be more secure.  After I reinstalled my keys, I had problems with them walking out until I did that. 

Andre,

The keyway in the flywheel hub of my Ashwamegh 6/1 was tapered about 0.007"/inch.  The keyway in the crankshaft should be flat.  I recently fitted my gib keys to the taper using a file and a black sharpie marker to indicate where the contact points were.  Took about 1/2 hour for each key, but now I know most of the taper surface is in contact with the flywheel hub keyway.
 

Halfnuts

[Stevels]

... My static balance showed 330 grams needed on each flywheel almost opposit from the cast in flywheel weights. ....
Thanks, Geno

Hey Geno, what is this static balance you speak of?  Is there a simple procedure to balance these flywheels?  I really don't want to mess with taking them off and balancing them the old fashion way. Please do tell! Thanks,

SA